Today's Quiz

Howdy All,

Here is a couple of pictures of an old donk I saved from a scrap yard....do you know what make it is ?...if so what model is it and what years were they produced ?
There's a bundy for the right one

Note there is no external crank balancer.

Basil

An old Cummins?

Hi Onetrack,

Do you think its a Cummins because of the colour under the green ?

Basil

Basil - Nope. It's because the picture you have shown .. of a pump, with lines coming out of it .. shows a Cummins Model H disc-type injection pump.
This style of Cummins injection pump was made so utterly and totally obsolete on July 1st, 1954 .. by the introduction of the radical, and much-lauded, Cummins PT fuel injection system .. that Cummins actually had to buy back, all the new disc-type injection pumps, that the Cummins dealers had in stock .. for destruction .. such was the runaway success of the PT fuel injection system .....

Now, tell me .. just how OLD, I am? .. from providing that piece of information, that has nearly been lost to history!! LOL

I might add .. if you can find a single, new replacement, component ANYWHERE .. for this pump .. you can get down on your knees, and be thankful, that a God exists, and he has guided you to them .. LOL

I'll guess that the engine is a H-series Cummins (the first truck diesel produced by Cummins), built from 1933 to early 1950's? (not sure on that precise date) .. 4 7/8" bore x 6" stroke .. and originally producing 125HP. The new improved NH series (for New H series), fitted with 4 valve heads, was produced from around 1948, and the bore had to be taken out to 5 1/8" to accommodate the 4 valves.
This gave the NH, its 743 cu inches, which was the displacement of all the big Cummins engines right through the 1950's and up to the mid 1960's, when the 855 appeared. The H series ran alongside the NH series for some time .. but I'm not sure when the H series was dropped. Do I get that Bundy??

Ron ..

Ron,

I reckon you earned yourself two bundies for that effort.
It is a Cummins model HB-1. 150 hp @ 1800.
From what I can gather its as you say built between 1933 and 1946.
I have new head gaskets, gasket kit, rings and bearings for it they were going to throw out also.
Missing flywheel and injectors.
Was well worth grabbing I reckon.
I will post a couple pictures of the complete engine tonight when I get home.

Its a big heavy sod to.

Basil

Basil, that's a good save, and the new parts are a real bonus. The only problem is .. many mechanics reckoned the disc-type injection system was nothing less than a boat anchor! .. so, good luck on that area ..

Of course, the good news is, that the PT system can be retrofitted to all Cummins engines! .. no matter how old! ..

The book, "The Engine That Could: Seventy-Five Years of Values-Driven Change at Cummins Engine Company", is good reading. It delves into every aspect of Clessie Cummins life, inventions, wins and losses, and the Cummins Engine Company corporate decisions and operations.

The invention of the PT injection system is particularly interesting. The original injection pump used a single disc .. then Cummins engineers devised the double disc system around 1947. The DD system was complex and costly, and Clessie didn't want to proceed with it. It cost 70% more to build than the old single disc injection pump, and it really wasn't any better, apart from being able to produce a little more HP. The disc injection pumps were limited in their ability to handle high engine speeds and produce high HP. By 1951, the DD pump was costing double to build, over the original single disc pump .. and it was plagued with reliability problems, and in particular, major leaks.

Incredibly, the PT design was being proceeded with, at the same time as the DD pump was being produced as the answer to modern diesel engine requirements. Clessie made the critical breakthrough on the PT design in 1949, and its design was further improved by a Cummins engineer by the name of Nev Reiners. Surprisingly, Clessie was relaxed about patenting the PT system, and when he finally did, he assigned all rights to CEC. In addition, Reiners filed patents on his improvements to the PT system, thus adding to Clessies anger (and financial losses).

The PT system was a runaway success that all corporations dream about. The PT system cost Cummins $143 a unit to produce, whereas the single disc pump had cost $286, and the DD pump, $325.
The PT system contained 182 parts, the SD pump 415 parts, and the DD pump, 448 parts ..

Cummins massive success and profitability in the 50's and 60's, came from the PT fuel system, more than the engines. One Cummins research engineer has been quoted as saying that the PT system gave Cummins a 20 year advance over every other engine manufacturer, in terms of being able to cope with high engine speeds and produce high HP.

Unreal find, Baz! Where did you find her and do you have any idea what she might be out of?

Andy, Ron

The engine came out of a truck originally. The fella thinks it was an Inter so id be guessing a K12 or something like that possibly.
After the truck it found its way into an old crane. Whiteman Park had big plans to restore the crane and pulled it all to bits.
Cummins rebuilt the heads and the injectors were rebuilt and have been lost.
The crane resto got to hard and they scrapped it many years ago and the engine has sat the workshop at Whiteman park spread over three pallets until they decided a month ago to have a big clean up and got some scrap bins dropped off.
A fella rang me and said come and get it if you want it or its going in the bin.
Not that I really need another engine but I went and had a look anyway. Glad I did now .
Decent load for the courier coming home though !

Basil

Well done for saving her, Baz, must be close to the only complete (ish) one in WA, perhaps Oz? Cummins and K12 rings a bell. I guess the engine number might narrow down the age etc.

Andy,

I was thinking all restored looking atleast on the outside it would be good for the Cummins section at the Hall of Fame in Alice. Atleast everyone could enjoy looking at it there instead of tucked away in the corner of my shed.
If the Hall of Fame don