Electric vehicles and alternate fuel sources

Yonks ago there was a real big argument in the NSW Labor govment who could see that it was running out of time to renew their coal fired assets. Against union pressure they sold these assets off so that they weren't left holding the baby when the crunch came. All this was before renewables was a thing. (Although soon a Chinese student at an Aussie university got frustrated at lack of industry interest in the universities research technology for roof top style panels that he took it home).

Fast forward - a miner in the Hunter working in the same power stations is now a Labor MP elected on the basis that the future of coal fired power is in the hands of big money, not government, it will close, and it is better to push for alternative business and jobs in that region.
Bluey, yes a kilowatt is a kilowatt and can't be identified as such and that is what the "market thing" is about. The assortment of generators and batteries puts their Kw in the pot and the ACT takes it out and pays for agreed amount. Of course this leaves everyone else out and scrambling. When some coal generators recently played shut down the "market" ceased to be functional and was thus closed with generators directed to come on line (we are not told what they being paid to do this).

Essentially the problem is this - back in 2013 Gillard etc brought about a medium term grand plan to transition away from coal, coalition got in and as an ongoing game of them against us politics to maintain power torpedoed the plan, with Morrison fumbling along in the same vein. Remember the power industry is now in private hands and they are trapped in a situation of kind of who blinks first and so no investment was being made in coal generation, and renewables where only being built where an existing grid connection was available.
Lost years of basically doing nothing passing the parcel. The coal generators can't insure their businesses and can't sell them - all the while they are wearing out. the de-commissioning costs are tremendous. Callide wasn't that old compared to the rest but it blew up - is it back up and running or have they put the for sale sign up?

A lot of forward planning by our government's has led us down this path, chasing votes and just agreeing to things to get the votes has put us on a path that is hard to steer away from now

Coal fired powerstations take a long time to plan and build and thats if they could ever get approved

As I have said many times on this thread, there is little point arguing about it, that ship has well and truely set sailed

Now we need to learn to live with the mess we have

There are plans in place to make this all work, but the stars have to align and so on

Private industry arent going to invest unless they can make a dollar and the easiest way to do that is to increase the cost
Easiest way to increase the cost is to make a shortage
This makes the government make a decision and one we can all live with and support and feel good about that also suits big business


Paul

Maybe the owners of coal fired stations should just say , either give us the same financial research subsidies and funds that you give to “renewable” sources, or we’ll take turn coal off tomorrow. How come other countries have the new coal fired efficient and clean power stations and we can’t x

Morris wrote:

Eye got a answer fur lecytric cars that shood please everywun.
Put a petrol or diesel generator ona trayla, toe it behind yr electricery car, Charger on the way.

No need for chargin statiuns, no mor kars running outa battry powr,
Keeps tha greenies happy to bee drivin non polloutering kar,
Keeps tha oyl kumpnees happy sellin produck.
Keeps tha Gommint happy collecting tax on fuell
Stops em havin ta built lots a chargin stashuns and lots a xtra lectrik generatin powr plants.

Butt whada eye no, sumbudy will find a floor in me plan before I patent it!
:woohoo: :evil: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Apparently the new electric Nissan Qashqui has a petrol engine running continuously to run the generator to keep the very small battery charging.

The 'research money' has been funnelled into propping up 'carbon capture' and gas, not the renewables. The 'clean coal' power has long been proved to be a furphy which is why the coalition stopped pushing that barrow. Lot's of propaganda from the USA coal lobby continues. Renewables don't need the research support, batteries and nuclear fisson excepted, a single phone call to China is all it takes. Wind and solar are now so cheap there is literally no incentive to spend on new coal power, the current limitation is that the grid can't carry and distribute more power, there are lots of projects waiting for the grid to arrive before they kick off. Yes, lots of technical issues need to be worked out as well as storage that can be turned on at the flick of a switch, all a work of progress when the vision and resources are there. Hopefully that is now but it will cost.

More locally, because of the lack of planning by the coalition for a decade your local distributor has their head in the sand with absolutely no idea what they are going to do about the demand for EV charging whether it be domestic or commercial.

mammoth wrote:

The 'research money' has been funnelled into propping up 'carbon capture' and gas, not the renewables. The 'clean coal' power has long been proved to be a furphy which is why the coalition stopped pushing that barrow. Lot's of propaganda from the USA coal lobby continues. Renewables don't need the research support, batteries and nuclear fisson excepted, a single phone call to China is all it takes. Wind and solar are now so cheap there is literally no incentive to spend on new coal power, the current limitation is that the grid can't carry and distribute more power, there are lots of projects waiting for the grid to arrive before they kick off. Yes, lots of technical issues need to be worked out as well as storage that can be turned on at the flick of a switch, all a work of progress when the vision and resources are there. Hopefully that is now but it will cost.

More locally, because of the lack of planning by the coalition for a decade your local distributor has their head in the sand with absolutely no idea what they are going to do about the demand for EV charging whether it be domestic or commercial.

Pretty much everything here is spot on

The grid as such isnt the issue that is stopping renewables, it has limitations, but theres a fair bit more than the grid that is slowing things
No matter what propaganda coal might put up they cant produce power cheaper than renewables like solar
They cant build coal fired power stations quicker than solar
And coal fired certainly isnt cheaper to run
And coal definitely isnt more reliable

The important thing is how are we all gunna fit into this changing world around us

Paul

No comment other than the usual "Many people have the solution to this problem and it will all be fixed tomorrow" will be forthcoming. I will try to find some photos of thousands of time expired windmill blade dumps in USA and Europe.

Courier Mail 23 July 22

As far as I know there is only one panel recycling plant in Australia and that is in South Australia and they pretty much just knock the aluminium frames off for scrap
Crunch up the rest and send it overseas to be recycled

I guess at least they can be recycled to a degree unlike coal, oil or gas, once it is burnt we cant collect any of the whats left after burning and recycle it

Similar problems arise with all things if we are honest

Paul

Recycled sounds wonderful until you start to consider the costs of removing and replacing the old panels. Then trucking, sorting, dismantling, trucking again , shipping and all the same deal on the Chinese end. All these things are using energy not to mention the energy required to turn the old panel crumbs into some new product.

Bit like the Queensland Government headlining Queensland outback is now open, yes that is what Anastacia said, to electric cars - front page news. I would guess there are probably 50,000 cars moving on Queensland rural area roads and highways' at any one time. They should find the half dozen new charging points scattered over a couple of million square kilometres will let them sell their Prado and buy a Tesla to tow their vans.

I know, small steps, but the whole bloody operation is driven by end dates and fairy tales instead of steady. sound and economical progress. The smallest advance or new idea is punted through the posts as a goal instead of an actual behind or even a near miss out of bounds. This will come about only by cost effective practical advances allowing the companies (not ever ever governments) to bring alternative power sources to the market that customers want to buy at a reasonable profit and sale price. Forcing the issue by legislation, closing power stations, banning petrol cars will never work in the long run firstly because people will choose not to pay higher prices for less capable and flexible products such as cars and machinery or if forced by bans and legislation to buy essential products such as home/business electricity but can not afford to pay.

As the man said in the article "It is all about the money"

The recycling of the by products of coal is done for free by all the plants and trees.

Paul is an important cog in the recycling of emissions!