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Gliders - a future in Australia 02 Jun 2015 21:12 #159400

  • theroadbossman
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I have been intrigued at the recent very high level discussions within a number of our truck manufacturers here in Oz about gliders in Australia. Not the ones with wings, the new trucks coming out of the plant with no motor or box and sometimes no diff(s).
Of course, the truck manufacturers don't like the idea: why would they, they would rather sell a complete new truck with a complete warranty and complete finance over it and make a complete deal from it.
But in tough financial times, transport moguls and even the humble owner driver must look elsewhere.
In the USA, gliders are big business and the oz truck importers and famous brand names are concerned that if push comes to shove they will have to follow suit.

So, onto the topic of discussion...
Is it viable against a new truck?
The fuel savings of a non-adblue or scr engine are attractive on their own, not to mention the maintenance savings and reliability improvements, speak loudly.

Is there a future in Australia, or are the governments smarter and have legislated against it?
Yes there is issues with VIN numbers and you cannot fit an older engine than that originally fitted to the vehicle when the vehicle was new.

Where does the term remanufactured start and stop - could and would a brand new cab chassis be delivered from Western Star or Mack with no engine or gearbox, and with no VIN or chassis number?

In this ever changing world, is this the future of some transport here?
Austral Tourmaster with 6V92T mechanical

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Re: Gliders - a future in Australia 02 Jun 2015 22:13 #159401

  • wedgetail84
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aaahhh, always wondered what a glider was. I think it sounds great but I suspect also too good to be true - so in theory you could buy a new T909 and fit a reman 12v92 and have it as registered 30 years old? I just cant see how the ADR would allow it - IMO they are about the most closed minded and unreasonably irritation body I can think of (bar work cover of course). Apart from the extreme examples (eg above) it would be very very attractive. So how high are the discussions at the moment - is representing any of our governing bodies involved?

Any warranty on the new bits from the manufacturer?

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Re: Gliders - a future in Australia 02 Jun 2015 23:49 #159402

  • mercskeepmeinajob
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Quite appropriate for this topics guidelines as the gliders were tried b4 more than 25 years ago, wait long enough and it all comes back again. Gliders are nothing new in Oz. the old truck and bus magazine used to have adverts run by Kenworth advertising gliders in the 70's and early 80's.

Kenworth would sell you everything they supplied from their factory fully built up as a glider all you had to do was provide all the other bits they don"t make themselves and buy in - go to Coles and purchase a new Radiator Engine fuel tanks and diffs. So if you had a prang you could just change out all the good bits and put them into a newer cab and rails. Bit like makin a silk purse out of a sows ear really.

Don't know how you would go registering a VIN without having all the right details, Spose it could be classed like a home built box 6 x 4 trailer, pretty similar really though I'm sure it would have to have a euro 5 equiv Japanese or merican regulation Cal ifornia compliant at the time of registration engine.
Was involved in the whole fuel tax rebate thingy a few years ago and tested the emissions out of a few thousand trucks and buses, yes 1996 was and still is the cutoff year where you can automagically claim the credit even if you never put a spanner on it since you bought it new.

The better engines were the Isuzu you really could put the white hanky over the exhaust and then with it wipe the tears out of your eyes. Probably the worst were the little diesel utes wagons closely followed by the ones with the oil running out of em into the plastic milk bottles and needing every piston downstroke just to keep the crank turning. Wonder how McHales Navy kept the bilges clean with all that oil leaking out?

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Re: Gliders - a future in Australia 03 Jun 2015 12:05 #159403

  • Swishy
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FWIW
A cupla jokers th@ worked @ KW
told us we had the 1st Glider
it twaz a 2nd hand KW S925 X Ansett wiff 3/4Mill miles on the clock
they striped it from the cab back n plated the chassis for HD Low Loader work
had new 4x4 swin stik cog box, top loader double reduction 44000lb diffs n susspension n the 8V-71 twaz tikled up to 318hp n 2100rpm n added a set of jakes n also airomatic power steer n

cya

OF ALL THE THINGS EYE MISS ................. EYE MISS MY MIND THE MOST

There's more WORTH in KENWORTH

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Re: Gliders - a future in Australia 03 Jun 2015 13:46 #159404

  • .RC.
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So how do they know how old the engine is anyway?

I have seen engines with stickers on them... Not hard to make a sticker..

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Re: Gliders - a future in Australia 03 Jun 2015 15:08 #159405

  • Vic Rhodes
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Read this...

www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_...SectionA_Engines.pdf

I think page 3,

point 5.1 will be big stumbling Block......

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Re: Gliders - a future in Australia 03 Jun 2015 15:10 #159406

  • jeffo
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I thought manufacturers would go for the idea. Keeps the chassis line moving and in many cases, engine, transmission axles are bought-in items anyway.
But I imagine you'd be limited to manufacturers who don't swap/change the appearance of the vehicle at the drop of a hat??
Surely W.S. here in Aus would be a prime candidate.
Can't see the VIN as a problem either as there's already a pathway for importing vehicles that were never originally assigned a 17 digit VIN.
It's a wonder VIN's are still around, 1977 technology when with bar code equipment I can tell you the name of the cow's grandfather that ended up on my plate.

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Re: Gliders - a future in Australia 03 Jun 2015 15:19 #159407

  • .RC.
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So why are they so hell bent on this "emissions control"

You read the rules and they are admitting modern engines are more costly and unreliable then older mechanical engines... So they make a ruling forcing people to use more costly and unreliable engines...

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Re: Gliders - a future in Australia 03 Jun 2015 15:54 #159408

  • BillyP
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BACK in the 70s at KW Lansvale we used a few glider kits (cab chassis front axle etc)

but mainly where a smash was involved & the truck was written off or when the owner

did some sort of deal with the ins co. but...........we did help do one for a bloke who

had all the runnin gear in good nick....so he decided to go that way instead of a new one.

In those days emissions & all that sort of crap wasnt an issue. As far as rego went

there wasnt an issue ( but i dont recall how it was done or if the original ch / no was used)

Thinkin........thinkin..........there may have been a special ch / no for the glider kit.

Year, in the right circumstances at the time, they were good value...........
.................Billy................
I came into this world with nothing & still have most of it..........

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Re: Gliders - a future in Australia 04 Jun 2015 19:05 #159409

  • theroadbossman
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I must admit it is a bit touch and go if the manufacturers will go forward with it, but it certainly has made the boardroom tables.
Have a look at this site for a bit more info on how they do it over there: www.hooverstruck.com/Peterbilt%20Glider%20Kits.htm

From what I can see, it's all about using a pre pollution controlled engine that returns better fuel economy and costs less to maintain than one of today's engines and in the process producing in proved reliability.

My understanding of the rules here is that if you want to use a 1995 motor then your truck must be 1995 or earlier. I don't quite get how a new truck today could use a 1995 motor UNLESS the truck is a remanufactured unit - meaning that one part of the old truck is used as the carry through into the new truck, and the carry through would have to be the customers vin or chassis number.

Early days, watch this space.
NB: this company in Tennessee makes and sells 50 finished gliders a week, and they say they are a small shop, have a look www.gliderkits.net/contact.htm
Austral Tourmaster with 6V92T mechanical

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