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Recent Tomm Article by GB

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14 years 9 months ago #10110 by
Recent Tomm Article by GB was created by
Was wondering what people thought about the recent article in TOMM by Gary Barker?

While I know he doesn't name any one but it was obvious that part of the reason for his article was due to my engine and display board. Which details the many recreated components made for the engine. Which is the direction his article takes.

To say that I was upset at his article is an understatement. While I would have loved to get a complete engine this is out of my ability to purchase at the time I was still at school. The only components that were recreated were either to far gone to restore (very few in this category) or I did not have. I certainly could not afford to purchase another engine for parts or any other expensive option.

Major point of Gary's article was splitting hairs about what is a restoration and what is a recreation. By his definition (quoting all sorts of official dogma) my engine is a recreation as some of the components are recreations. This is true but a majority of the engine is original for that engine or from other marshalls.

The official dictionary definition of Restoration is:-

1. the act of restoring; renewal, revival, or reestablishment.
2. the state or fact of being restored.
3. a return of something to a former, original, normal, or unimpaired condition.

Therefore I have Restored the engine as I have returned it to the original condition. As all the new parts are exact recreations of the originals so the total solution is a restoration (well over 75% is original).

His further comments about it would be better to have the history etc of the engine. Well that is not known. This engine after being scrapped of all its brass etc passed through many hands in preservation. None of these people know what its original history is. And of course those that would have known have now unfortunately passed away!

I also found it a slap in the face in another article in TOMM of photos of the steam engines at the national that all the steam portables where shown. Except my engine! Yet I believe my portable was probably the best presented! And since it was only its 3rd event since completeing restoration certainly was worthy of mention in my belief.

Further more since then I had my engine at another event where another one of the members of the NHMA Heritage boiler group was at and I was informed that my engine which complies with all current boiler standards would not comply with the new heritage boiler code. The reason? One of my gauge glass handles was pointing in the wrong direction! It didn't matter to this person that the gauge glasses are original Marshall and were assembled as per Works photos and diagrams this was still not good enough. And would need to be changed if I was to move to the heritage boiler code!

While I enjoy the steam movement and have been an active member of it for 16+ years I must say that people like GB and other older members of the movement have got to encourage younger people to join in. And things like what I have mention above has got to stop! As it certainly doesn't do the movement any good.

And certainly I believe I have restored a wonderful steam engine that compeats with any others out there. And without the help, assistance and encouragement of my close friend Ben I would not have achived it. Because unlike many of the people in this movement especially steam. I'm relatively young (34) and do not work in a trade I work in the computer field. So what I have achived with lots of help I believe is great!

With many of the complete engine already in private collections (rusting away) and the price being driven up by oppertunistic people. The availabilty of steam engines is getting harder and harder to get. The other thing that is a worry for the movement is that the average age of the perservation movement is going up. We need to get young people into the movement yet everything that is being done at the moment is pushing them away! And splitting hairs about what is a restoration and what is a recreation does not help. And in the end is in the eyes of the beholder and certainly the owner.

Sorry for the length of the post. But I just had to get it off my chest! Thank you!


My Pride and Joy

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14 years 9 months ago #10111 by Marty
Replied by Marty on topic Re: Recent Tomm Article by GB
She looks like a bewdy too bro.
Regards Marty

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14 years 9 months ago #10112 by Cunning Stunt
Hi Mate

I read your soap box statement with great interest and respect. There's two things here that have been ongoing, one is the restoration/recreation debate, the other the one about keeping the hobby alive. I get a buzz out of the old truck movement because I have met very few knobjockeys compared to the opinionated old car scene. Only came across a couple who have openly had a go at me about my Commer to which (depending on my mood at the time) they either get ignored or told ::) Going on the caliber of the those who are happy and bold enough to pass judgement, I get more of a kick out of the latter ;D.

And they are normally the ones who have never built anything in their entire lives, having either bought a completed project or, as you put it, are storing them in their "private" collections. I appreciate anyone who can fabricate, paint, weld, rebuild or replicate in the order of preserving our past. Old car clubs are shrinking in numbers due to a lack of younger enthusiasts and the truck/tractor movement will die if we don't support runs and encourage our youth.

I'm 39 and have had a mad truck interest all of my life. I drive them, manage a company that operates them, literally breath them. I sold everything I could to buy my knocker then traded, bartered, begged and stole to rebuild it to its current state. Hopefully that explains my attitude to the naysayers.

Hold your head up high Bruce. Your steamer is stunning and you should be proud. Just remember, jealousy is a curse. ;)

Just my 2c worth

Bruce

Some play hard to get

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14 years 9 months ago #10113 by bparo
Replied by bparo on topic Re: Recent Tomm Article by GB
It is actually Jarrod's engine not mine (although if he wants to pass it to me :) )

I can't explain why you engine wasn't pictured. The recently produced DVD coverage of the event only shows trucks in the grand parade, and very few of the tractors etc that were there, it shows some things several times (such as your Inter) but misses others entirely (your steam engine). It can be as simple as the photographer couldn't get a clear shot as there were too many people around to get a good photo when they were there and they never got back again

Be careful you are not confusing things. I know from doing the monitor then yearbook that sometimes you have to leave something out due to space reasons. At other times the page fills so you stop, without looking at the other photos that may be there. The reason why is simple - time - there are deadlines to meet to get the magazine/newsletter out and the timemay not be there to spend another hour or 2 to look at photos (particularly at 1 or 2am when I have work the following day)

Regarding the restoration story by GB I read it as simply an extension of discussions that had already been going on in the vehicle, train, building and machinery worlds for some time. I remember having similar discussions with the staff at ScienceWorks with my exhibits and others from the Eltham Steam & Stationary Engine Preservation Society 2 or 3 years ago.

While I don't know who GB is and don't pretend to speak on his behalf but he never explictly mentioned your engine in the article and seemed to me to be talking in general terms. The comments could apply to almost every engine at every rally ever.

You have done great job on your engine and have every right to be proud. Be careful not to look for criticism that isn't there.

Having lived through a pandemic I now understand all the painting of fat people on couches!

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14 years 9 months ago #10114 by Cunning Stunt

It is actually Jarrod's engine not mine (although if he wants to pass it to me :) )


Sorry, I thought everyone was called Bruce :-[ Don't know how I buggered that up.....................

Some play hard to get

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14 years 9 months ago #10115 by
Replied by on topic Re: Recent Tomm Article by GB
You are correct in all your points Bparo.

I just wonder if it was a coincidence or not. As a engine such as mine that was displaying on my display clearly that reproduction and recreation featured heavily on my engine. Then the next issue a big article on it! Concidence?

The same issue a rundown on the steam at the national rally. From memory all the steam portables that were at the national rally plus majority of the traction engine. But mine was missing? Again Concidence?

The fact that all the steam portables in this run down weren't glossy and generally more original looking than mine (even if actually wasn't the case). Concidence?

That some of the traction engines in the spread have had articles written and many photos previously in TOMM yet mine hasn't yet. (must get round to it. Maybe not now :-/). Again Concidence?

Will say that I much prefer the Historical truck movement in its easy going and very much acceptance of anything and in any condition attude. When compared to the steam movement (with some few exceptions). Happily go many km's for a truck show but for a steam show?

In the end I had to get it all off my chest! So thanks all for listening and your comments.

Just remember have fun and don't worry about the number of rivets!

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14 years 9 months ago #10116 by bparo
Replied by bparo on topic Re: Recent Tomm Article by GB
Hi Jarrod,

I have been accused of doing what you are thinking by an HCVC Member as I didn't have their truck in the Yearbook and had ignored their brand.

That was the furthest thing from my mind as I put the yearbook together but I am always open to accusations of too few/many Internationals/Bedfords/Macks. too many photos of my truck in last years yearbook (it wasn't even in it) etc.

The truth is I am trying to put together a balance that will appeal to the majority of readers and from a sales point of view some brands sell more than others. I would imagine TOMM would be looking for a similar balance so they may not have shown your Steam Engine in order to show more petrol engines.

Of course I could be totally wrong and GB and themselves have it in for you but don't go looking for problems that are not there.

Having lived through a pandemic I now understand all the painting of fat people on couches!

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14 years 9 months ago #10117 by JimmyDodge
Hi Jarrod,
First up, I think your engine is a first class bit of work , and I think every one likes a bit of recognition for all their time, work and expense that they have put into their project.
I think you did the right thing in putting this into a post as writing it down is a good way to "vent your spleen "
I can understand Bparo 's view as well that it is so hard to please everyone when putting together a magazine , especially with the many constraints you must have.
I agree with you about encouraging young members into the fold of restoring older cars, trucks , and machinery, as without new blood our hobby's days are numbered .
As an example my 19 year old son has a Valiant car and is a member of two Chrysler car clubs , one is the Chrysler Restorers Club , and the other is the Hunter Valley Chrysler Club . The Chrysler Restorers Club mainly consists of people 50 years and older ( of which at 53 I am in that group !)
They had an article in their last newsletter wondering how they could attract younger members, they were wondering if they should relax their rule of no modified cars in the club.
The Hunter Valley club just wants your car to be a Chrysler no matter what you have done to it , and it is a great family club with a great cross section of people from young to old , with stock to wild cars.
Blake has never been on a club run with the Chrysler restorers club .
I think that speaks for itself , though I am sure there are fine people in that club.
Anyway Jarrod, I have noticed there appears to be one rivet, just not quite correctly peened over on your boiler , if you fix that , you may be allowed into the "inner sanctum" ::)
regards Harleigh.

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14 years 9 months ago #10118 by atkipete
Agreed Jarrod, I have just read GBs comments and cant really see the point of them. The only reason people make components is because the originals are missing / broken beyond repair/ unavailable at realsitic prices. etc.
You have done a great job (apart from that one rivet Jimmy mentioned) on your engine. I wish I had the skills, patience, time etc to do the same.
There is a article in the June 2009 edition of "Vintage Spirit" that has your engine and a lot of others at Scoresby in all their glory.
Bruce is always on the lookout for articles for the yearbook and if anyone wants to see their favourite truck in there - get writing.

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14 years 9 months ago - 14 years 9 months ago #10119 by bparo
Replied by bparo on topic Re: Recent Tomm Article by GB
Before anyone starts rumours. Jarrod and I are good mates and get on well. We help each other out with all sorts of things. I am not friends of anybody associated with TOMM so can't speak for them however I don't think it was Jarrod's engine that was the cause of the article.

Jarrod, Keep displaying it along with the list of work you have done. It is a great job and deserves to be seen and the list shows the public how much work was involved. It definitely was no 'cheque book restoration'

Having lived through a pandemic I now understand all the painting of fat people on couches!
Last edit: 14 years 9 months ago by bparo.

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