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Freeman-Sanders
8 years 6 months ago #162575
by Dave_64
Freeman-Sanders was created by Dave_64
Hi All,
Query for you Ferguson fans. Came across a really old text book on early diesels and the name "Freeman-Sanders" came up. According to Google, Freeman -Sanders himself was an engine designer in the Harry Ricardo vein, having quite a bit to do with Standard-Vanguard-Ferguson in development. When I was but a mere boy, maybe fifty odd years ago, bloke I worked for had a grey Fergie diesel tractor, and I distinctly remember the name "Freeman-Sanders" either stamped or embossed on that engine. Most people credit the engine to Standard Engines, I wonder how many of them had actually been stamped with the F-S name? Or, it could possibly have been stamped somewhere on the actual head. Some of those early Paxman engines used to have the "Ricardo" name stamped usually on the head, so why not F-S.?
It also had a "Ki-Gas" control valve on the dashboard, which I think was a cold starting aid. Would that have been one of those early hot wire loops which trickles diesel onto it and then vaporises? Similar to early Perkins 4/99 engines?
As usual, someone on here undoubtedly would know.
Cheers, Dave
Query for you Ferguson fans. Came across a really old text book on early diesels and the name "Freeman-Sanders" came up. According to Google, Freeman -Sanders himself was an engine designer in the Harry Ricardo vein, having quite a bit to do with Standard-Vanguard-Ferguson in development. When I was but a mere boy, maybe fifty odd years ago, bloke I worked for had a grey Fergie diesel tractor, and I distinctly remember the name "Freeman-Sanders" either stamped or embossed on that engine. Most people credit the engine to Standard Engines, I wonder how many of them had actually been stamped with the F-S name? Or, it could possibly have been stamped somewhere on the actual head. Some of those early Paxman engines used to have the "Ricardo" name stamped usually on the head, so why not F-S.?
It also had a "Ki-Gas" control valve on the dashboard, which I think was a cold starting aid. Would that have been one of those early hot wire loops which trickles diesel onto it and then vaporises? Similar to early Perkins 4/99 engines?
As usual, someone on here undoubtedly would know.
Cheers, Dave
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8 years 6 months ago #162576
by steveb
Replied by steveb on topic Re: Freeman-Sanders
In the early 1950s my dad traded the petrol engined Fergie on a Diesel , and that motor was labeled Freeman -Saunders . Over the years I have had quite a few discussions with people who disagreed with me...
Thanks for justifying what I was sure I remembered..
Thanks for justifying what I was sure I remembered..
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8 years 6 months ago #162577
by indianman
Replied by indianman on topic Re: Freeman-Sanders
G'day Dave will ask my boss when I see him next re Freeman-Sanders as he did his app on Tea20s and was a massey dealer for many years as far as the Ki Gas goes it was an ether mix that was poured into a container and a little pump on the dash was used to spray a measured amount into the intake manifold ( an early version of start ya bastard )
Jon
PS When I get a chance I will have a look through the parts and w/shop manuals to see if there is reference to the different engine
Jon
PS When I get a chance I will have a look through the parts and w/shop manuals to see if there is reference to the different engine
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8 years 6 months ago #162578
by dieseldog
Replied by dieseldog on topic Re: Freeman-Sanders
I'm pretty sure Freeman Sanders assisted the Standard Motor Company with the design of the 20C diesel. The later 23C diesel then had a Ricardo designed cylinder head fitted.
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8 years 6 months ago #162579
by Dave_64
Replied by Dave_64 on topic Re: Freeman-Sanders
Thanks, Guys.
Model numbers, I am not familiar with. Roughly what era are we talking about 20C diesel and the later 23C??
Beginning to sound like Freeman -Sanders may be one of those blokes like Ricardo who did some designing in early days and wanted his name stamped for posterity?
Dave
Cheers, Dave
Model numbers, I am not familiar with. Roughly what era are we talking about 20C diesel and the later 23C??
Beginning to sound like Freeman -Sanders may be one of those blokes like Ricardo who did some designing in early days and wanted his name stamped for posterity?
Dave
Cheers, Dave
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8 years 4 months ago #164410
by dieseldog
Replied by dieseldog on topic Freeman-Sanders
Dave, the 20C was designed as a tractor engine first, which was then fitted to cars later. These were produced around the early to mid fifties. The model names come from their displacement, as in 20 hundred and 23 hundred or C. The 23C was a similar design, and produced from the mid fifties to mid sixties. These were also fitted to cars and tractors other than Ferguson. They weren't a very popular engine as they were notoriously hard to start and the torque curve wasn't matched to the tractor's gearing. They were eventually fitted with glow plugs which improved starting, but by then, Perkins was a far superior option.
Interestingly, when Ferguson was looking at diesel options for the TE20, both Perkins and Meadows engines were evaluated but they ultimately decided to get together with Standard and Freeman-Sanders and build their own engine, only to go back to Perkins a few years later.
Interestingly, when Ferguson was looking at diesel options for the TE20, both Perkins and Meadows engines were evaluated but they ultimately decided to get together with Standard and Freeman-Sanders and build their own engine, only to go back to Perkins a few years later.
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8 years 4 months ago #164414
by Swishy
OF ALL THE THINGS EYE MISS ................. EYE MISS MY MIND THE MOST
There's more WORTH in KENWORTH
Replied by Swishy on topic Freeman-Sanders
OF ALL THE THINGS EYE MISS ................. EYE MISS MY MIND THE MOST
There's more WORTH in KENWORTH
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8 years 4 months ago #164417
by Dave_64
Replied by Dave_64 on topic Freeman-Sanders
Thanks Guys, gradually rounding out just a little more of a mis-spent youth!
Swishy, after seeing that V12 Fergy, don't feel so guilty now I've come out of the closet as a "tinkerer"!
Cheers, dave_64
Swishy, after seeing that V12 Fergy, don't feel so guilty now I've come out of the closet as a "tinkerer"!
Cheers, dave_64
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