Setting angles of engine/drivelines in chassis

To make your life easier break the task down into unit size bites.

Get the engine where it has to go then fasten it down.

Next do the auxilliary.

It's too hard moving heavy bits of gear around a mm at a time when you are trying to do it for the two items.

Perserverence Grasshopper, will get you there.

Advice taken, Rod.
Got all components just about where they need to be, engine is tightened down at bellhousing as well as at rear of transmission, still trying to get a replacement rubber for that rear mount, proving a bit hard to get at the moment, but if and when I locate one, just a matter of slipping the old one out and jamming the new one in.
Auxilliary is clamped down just about ready to be bolted in, just a final check to ensure that still within tolerances, do that in the next few days.
Had a bit of a win over at Barry Moon's at Bendigo, whilst hunting for the delinquent rear mount (no luck there either) came across a box of assorted rubber donuts and spacer mounts which with a bit of luck will replace the original cab mounts. He also dug out enough of the small U bolts that hold the transmission uni joints together, something else that had proven elusive, so all in, wasn't a bad day.
Took a spare flange over with me that came with a set of half cups from a Dodge gearbox to hold the uni's on. Upon inspection somebody had welded two half washers to the saddles and that was allowing the uni joint to move within the recess, not much, but enough to cause problems. Apparently, this type of yoke uses an internal circlip on the inner machined face of the yoke, ones I have had in the past, the output yoke had two small "tangs" on the outer part of the half circle recess to stop it sliding, either been ground or ripped out, have to take the other spare yoke over there and see if he has got anything to match it.
Dave.

OK, got onto Dana-Spicer (Melb) for some technical queries, who promptly handballed it to Driveline Services in Brisbane. Bloke sent me a text and rang him back, chap by the name of Ron, extremely helpful and accommodating.
His advice with an unweighted chassis, was to set it up initially with a ONE degree (pointing downwards) difference between the auxilliary transmission outlet and the diff inlet flange.
Achieved this by shimming the crossmember to chassis rails, ran the angle meter and tape back over everything, a clout here, a belt there, retighten everything, vertical and horizontal plane within ONE mm over a tailshaft face to face distance of 635mm
Had all the straight edges set up and have got as far as the FRONT engine mounts
Jackshaft faces from aux input to main trans are within 0.2 degrees, that was measuring them at straight edges left in place on the diff flange, as well as both the inlet and outlet flange faces. Jackshaft does sit level and parallel with the chassis, but allowing for the 5mm difference over 220mm (length of jashaft centre of cup to centre of cup), again according to Ron, acceptable. Bolted rear main transmission up and tightened.
Bellhousing mounting bolts sitting in place, but not tightened as have yet to sort out the front engine mounts, and that's where I run into a snag.
I am using the mounting plates, adapters and rubbers which came out of the original 1993 Range Rover, but they are not only a lot wider in the chassis rails, but offset to one side to allow for the front differential. I had to move the rubber mount one inch closer to the engine, simply measured, marked and then redrilled the holes and trim off the same amount of excess so the mount would clear the chassis rails and also makes them easy to remove.
Just looking at the rubber mounts themselves, (I haven't checked the actual angle yet), but looks like the main securing bolt sits about 30-35 degrees to the perpendicular. All well and good so far.
Taking some measurements (the engine is sitting on blocks at the front and a piece of channel clamped to the chassis rails at the harmonic balancer). Engine inclination is currently the same as the rest of the driveline, set at three (3) degrees, can play with that a bit, but reluctant to do so as the jackshaft is in the position and angle that I need.
What I am going to do about a front engine mounting crossmember I'm at a bit of a loss. Couple of general steel engineers reckon they can do it, but won't certify it for registration. Did get onto one bloke who says he can do it AND certify it, trouble is he wants the vehicle in his workshop miles away, I don't want to move it . Worried me that he said he would "make it up as I go. " Can do that myself, but never get it passed.
If it was a straight semi-circular crossmember (to clear the sump) to suit a 30 inch chassis, may be able to cheat a bit. But the bulge in the oil pan sump itself gets in the way, yes, I know that if I remove the sump, its only steel, not cast or alloy, I can modify the sump itself, have done it before on Jeeps, but can run into problems with the actual oil pick up pipe and screen. So at the moment, came to a grinding halt. Have to go scrounging around the boneyards and may pick up a front crossmember off something else that can be adapted (shortened).
Dave.

Dave,

I don't follow what the problem is with certification?

I built an ICV (hard as hell to register these) and at no point did anything need to be welded by a certified welder (I didn't alter steering or brake parts) but it was inspected for 13 man-hours by NSW RMS and they were happy.

If I had the problem I'd make my own crossmember, or find one that would work with minimal mods.

Rod,
Know a bloke here in Victoria who inspects pre-1949 vehicles (mine's 1956-1960's era),
He told me that you can add spacer blocks or reposition existing crossmembers providing you use correct fasteners. Done that, all mounting points from the rear engine bellhousing positions treated accordingly.
The way he explained it to me, is that most crossmembers are stamped out in a forge. Because I need an offset to the front to clear the sump bulge, looked at having one made up from 85mm wide channel folded up out of 4mm thick steel, no problem getting a metre or so of STRAIGHT channel pressed up. But because of the offset mentioned above, only way I can see how to create that offset is to cut and weld it, can't see how it can be bent sideways against the flange on the channel. Not only has to be bent sideways from the parallel, but also has to be upswept approx 100mm.
This bloke MAY have inadvertently given me a bum drum as far as any fabrications are concerned, I could probably make up a template here out of old channel or even a purlin as a sample, tinker around with it until I get it right. That was the way I was going to go, then once I did get it right, take it to someone who knows what they are doing, which means a fabrication engineer. Again, going by what this bloke told me, if I do that, any cuts and welds would have to be x-rayed and inspected , then certified up to the standards acceptable.
Maybe he is being pedantic (like me), but I can see what he says, being the MAJOR component holding the whole weight of the front of the engine, you wouldn't want the whole shooting match breaking and dropping on the ground.
Bloke here does a lot of fabrication for local cockies , really good welder, I've often just tacked something up and taken it down to him to fully weld it, but not on any major components. Like I said, maybe I'm being over cautious, and I can only go on what more knowledgeable people than I, tell me, like the bloke who does the inspections. The fabricator did tell me that he would be "reluctant" to make something, mostly because he seems to be under the pump maintaining his own clients, working 7 days a week as it is.
The other thing he said was that doing modifications on plant and equipment being used in the paddock, was a lot different to a vehicle being driven on the road that would have to pass an engineers test.
Don't know if I can fully agree with that, as if anything breaks in a paddock which causes even injury, first thing Worksafe would do is go over it and see if there's anything amiss.
You have probably reworked many projects in your time, don't know if you are an engineer, but I am only a backyard tinkerer and not a very good one at that. With today's stringent regulations and every second authority seemingly perched on your shoulder, if ever this thing gets on the road I want it to be right and not a danger to either myself or anyone else on the streets.
Thanks again for your advice and interest.
Dave

Dave, I'm with Zuffen... you're over thinking everything..
just do a neat structurally sound Job. (Which is exactly what you're doing)
& Tell "nobody nothing"..or no more than you have too...LOL

Cogz
m80

eye'm wiff Seed

If it looks good
it will B good

cya
§

Swishy wrote: Cogz
m80

eye'm wiff Seed

If it looks good
it will B good

cya
§

Yep, Set the angles, weld all the brackets up properly, then PAINT it all gloss black.

I dare say all you smart people know this but I didnt till just a few minutes ago
Was yhacking to a mate on the phone who is changing things around a bit in the gearbox department and we were discussing the tail shaft and flange and yoke angles etc
And he informed me tonight that you can get a app for your smart phone called a inclinometer I think he said it is called that is for checking flange angles and is just thing for this lining stuff up
I have only got my first mobile phone on Friday when the Princess went shopping, I only borrowed the Princesses phone when needed
And would you believe the phone is smarter than me, Galaxy something or other , buggered if I know but I can make phone calls with out asking now LOL

Paul

Mrs.
I downloaded 3 of those apps onto my phone, two digital and one analogue.
And often get three different answers!
Bloke up at Bendigo Driveshaft joint swears by his, reckons he sets all his angles by them and hasn't had any comebacks yet. For a quick reference as you are roughing things out, they are very handy. You can also pick up a proper digital angle meter with a magnetic base for around forty bucks, simply let itself clamp onto the yokes, just have to hope that they're square!
Dave