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Compound transmission ratios (revisited)

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4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #200128 by Dave_64
Mrsmackpaul wrote:-
"I did have a similar thought once with my old heavy truck
Joining a 8 speed Clark to a 4 speed Spicer joey box
Thoughts were to drop the two speed high low off the rear of the Clark and then close couple the Spicer to the remains".

Paul,
Just going through my old Transmission (1939-1944 3rd edition) book looking for something or other and looked up CLARK 8 speed OR a 4X2. Couldn't find any reference, had 3-4-5- speeds as well as 2 speed island auxilliaries. Now, that's not to say they weren't made, could be something simple like I have missed them or they don't appear in the book, although it is a very comprehensive listing. Maybe a special application, was wartime so anything and everything cobbled together?
What I DID find however, was a listing for a FULLER 8 speed (16 references) which were simply a 4 speed HD box with a two speed Hi-Lo bolted to the back of the primary case. Came in many variations (hence the 16 references) of direct, underdrive and overdrive in both the main transmission as well as the 2 speed splitter. Used behind the Hercules (petrol and diesel) as well as the Cummins engines.
Just as an aside, many listings for Mack TR and TRD transmissions in 10 speed (single countershaft, well before twin and triple countershafts came into vogue), again, a 5 speed main with the two speed bolted to the back. Like Fuller, came in a wide variety of ratios and combinations of U/D-Dir-O/D in both the main and auxilliary section. Mack also supplied some transmissions to Reo, but doesn't give which series or vehicles they went into.
I had the devils own job trying to positively identify a T35 Inter box, which ended up most likely being made in-house.
The other thing I have learned is casting numbers sometimes don't tell you much, if you have neither a tag on a transmission or a line setting ticket on the vehicle, well, unless you find someone who has had experience either dealing or rebuilding a certain box, it's a bit hit and miss.
Don't think that I am questioning your description, you would know better than I just what you have there, I simply couldn't find anything in my manual.
Cheers, Dave
Last edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Dave_64.

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4 years 11 months ago #200131 by JOHN.K.
There is another little known fact with the T35s...........some were made by the australian army .........in fact most of the obsolete components in the 4x4 and 6x6 accos were made by the army..............they made cylinder blocks,heads,crankshafts,all the small bits ,and also made the castings for the T35 trannys..................they are easily identified by having ADEV numbers cast into them in place of IH numbers.

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4 years 11 months ago #200132 by Dave_64
John.K.
Well, that's another newie to me, no wonder some people have trouble chasing down part(s) numbers.
Thanks, Dave

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4 years 11 months ago #200137 by Mrsmackpaul
Yes it was a Vlark 4x2 trans
Direct top, no overdrive

I call it a 8 speed because other wise people get more confused and tell me its single drive and get all mixed up and confused

Paul

Your better to die trying than live on your knees begging
The following user(s) said Thank You: Dave_64

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4 years 11 months ago #200138 by JOHN.K.
mrs M Paul......does your Federal still have the Spicer/Brown Lipe 8 speed box...(4x2)?

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4 years 11 months ago #200154 by Mrsmackpaul

JOHN.K. wrote: mrs M Paul......does your Federal still have the Spicer/Brown Lipe 8 speed box...(4x2)?


Yes has it and it all works last time I checked

Paul

Your better to die trying than live on your knees begging

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4 years 10 months ago #200604 by Dave_64
Well, since last posting, we have had a look at a few options with the Kogzbilt.
Got hold of a 1975 Chevvy C30 dual wheel tray, sitting at a mates place until I get time to get a permit and get it home, needs a new windscreen and a scrub up, shouldn't take much to get her roadworthied and put on club plates.
Gone off on a bit of a tangent, after seeing the photos of the bloke who grafted a Karrier cabin onto a F250 chassis.
Always liked the look of the Chevvy's, had both Dodges and Fords here at one stage or another, both rustbuckets, but the C30 is surprisingly free of cancer. Make a good project, bog standard 350 V8, SM465 trans and 14 bolt 10.5" diff.
Got a lot going for it, parts very easy to get and reasonably priced, disc brake front end etc.
We're kicking the idea around of either bolting the front and rear ends under the Karrier chassis, as it has already been blasted and painted, all drive line assembled OR, drop the whole drive train in the Chev chassis.
Big comedown from a 5.2litre gas guzzler to a 2.5 TDI, but what the hell?
Bloke called around early in the week to have a look at the Karrier cabin, doors and guards, said he wouldn't mind taking it on if I have it (cabin) sandblasted first, reckoning there's no place for the rust to hide once you hit it with the blaster. Sandblaster is coming around in a couple of weeks to have a look.
Tray on the Chevvy is pretty sad, wants re-decking eventually, but not insurmountable, other than that, the basic frame is pretty straight, no bad dings.
Have a real good look at it once I get it home.
Got half a dozen projects on the go at the same time, the more I look at the transmission set up in the Karrier chassis, the more I think it can be improved. Running the close ratio, all synchro box through the auxilliary was maybe not the ideal choice in hindsight. With the ratios that we ended up with, would have been better suited running a std ratio 435 instead of the 445. Not a huge problem though, as it is only a project toy, a "weekend warrior" so to speak, not going to be doing overnighters to Brisbane or carrying huge loads.
Have the plans and spec sheets here for making a "compound" transmission with very minimal machining involved, besides, no shortage of transmissions and parts laying around, just shy one Ford NP435 case, mate reckons he's got a lead on one already.
Another mate who has a couple of C30's in his back yard suggested I keep the 445 and stick it in the Chevvy, give it better road manners, wouldn't take much adapting either as the later model 445 can be almost bolted directly to the Chevy bellhousing, 3 out of the 4 bolt holes line up, the other has a slight quarter of a hole offset. Means changing an input shaft and bearing retainer. Already sussed out the 11" clutch plate in 23 spline, easy to get, Dodge used them up to the two tonners. Either way,I won't part with the 445 as it is in exceptional condition.

Of course the question has to be asked, WHY?

I do a lot of reading of overseas forums, blokes who alter things, "tinkerers" ( like me), and one of the things that strike me is the amount of blokes who throw their hands in the air and cry "TOO HARD". Bullshit, excuse the French, unless they can buy it off the shelf, it becomes daunting. There are some blokes who do all sorts of weird and wonderful things, especially in this country alone, with the attitude of giving it a whirl, it can only stuff up!
Blokes overseas swapping Ford to Dodge to Chevvy and all sorts of combinations. You can adapt just about anything to anything if you think about it hard enough, of course things will sometimes lay an egg, builds character!
Don't know if I had posted these few photos or not, just the engine to clutch setup, R/R (Perkins designed) , Ford Bellhousing, Dodge transmission, had it running quite often, seems to be alright except for ratio mismatch with the auxilliary.





These snaps taken before I dropped it into the chassis.
Very simple adaptation, adapter plate machined to go from R/R block to Dodge NP445, Ford bell and throwout etc, Dodge 23 spline input and clutch plate. Note the specially built clutch plate built around std 9.5" Chrysler but with extended female spline.
Cheers, Dave
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