To Rivet, or not to Rivet

I am wondering what most people would say.

I have to pull the hole rail apart to remove some build up of rust and fix a bit of pitting.

But once I start the reassemble, I was wondering if I should Re Rivet the rail or bolt it.
If I do bolt it:
Fine or normal threaded bolts.
High tensile or normal bolts.
Nilex or normal nuts.

What do you think ????




Once I clean it up and plate some spots on the rail

G'day Shadow,
An excellent question, my old Dodge has similar chassis problems with riveted cross members that are cracked needing repairs. I have thought the same thing myself .
Would anyone replying know where to obtain rivets and advise the correct procedure for repairs if that is the way to go?
Shadow and I need to know
regards Harleigh.

Hi Shadow & Jimmy Dodge, Ive used High tensile bolts with fine thread on some of my other trucks. I wouldn't use anything but High tensile bolts.
Ray

I can make the rivets, but it is time spent to install them one at a time, and 2 sizes with 5 diff lengths + making sure it does not more while you install each rivet.

Shadow,

I have used high tensile bolts instead of rivets a number of times. I think I showed you some of them! And you know how many rivets I had to do!

At the end of the day a high tensile bolt with grade 8 nuts (best you can get) (suggestion to get or keep copies of the types of nuts and bolts used just in case some one wants to check everything is rated and ok) has to be better than soft iron rivets that have been heated up and bashed etc!

Most important thing is to put a bit of oil on everything so you can get it done up tight. Wouldn't use a rattle gun as that could be to tight.

When I was doing up my rivets I just used the biggest shifter and put my weight on it.

And everything is OK.

If you do rivet it make sure the rivets are white hot and are held tight when closing them else they will be lose. Then only thing is to remove them and start again. Also to stop everything moving you will need to bolt it together tightly so nothing moves during the riveting. Removing the bolts just prior to riveting that hole. In the end unless you have done riveting before and feel 100% confident I wouldn't even try.

Go with bolts. Just make sure they are a snug fit! And if they are tight enough you haven't stressed them by over tightening them and they wont come undone. If concerned use wickin loctite. (wouldn't put loctite on prior just in case takes a little while to pull it down evenly as I would put it on like a wheel. evenly!)

Oh and by the way shadow you can purchase rivets still from certain places. They are usually made of certain grade of steel to allow them to be riveted.

JBlair

Thanks

I am going towards bolts

They are a lot easier to adjust if needed

As Shadow said thanks Jarrod , I was thinking it would take a lot to shear of a Grade 8 fine thread bolt but I was just worried that it would hold it tight enough. I also have to admit I have no experience in riveting whatsoever ( Er,, does pop riveting count???)
However Mr Blair ... A Shifter to tighten things ? does not one have the proper spanner, Sir ???
Thanks for your advice,
Harleigh.

FWIW
I'd go for Grade 8 imperial size in fine thread NF or BSF
flat hitensile washers n nyloc nuts torqued up to the recommended n checked n re torqued after sum K'z under the belt

ButEyeDoSt&2BCorrected
Cya
[ch9787]

G'day Swishy , just for my own piece of mind , have you actually used Grade 8 bolts and found them a satisfactory substitute for a rivet? Has Vicroads found any problem when rego inspection comes around substituting bolts for rivets ? to quote the master.. inquiring mind needs to know..
Harleigh.

Shadow & Harley - Rivets will retain the original look if you're a purist .. but high tensile bolts will work just fine. Many truck manufacturers, including Mack, used bolts from new in the chassis. Rivets have an advantage in that, as they cool, they shrink and clamp the items together very tightly.

High tensile bolts come in Grade 5, Grade 8, Grade 9 and Grade 12 if you're working with imperial fasteners.

Grade 5 = 120,000 lbs tensile strength. Identified by 3 dashes on the head.
Grade 8 = 150,000 lbs tensile strength. Identified by 6 dashes on the head.
Grade 9 = 180,000 lbs tensile strength. Identified by 7 dashes on the head.
Grade 12 = Allen Head socket screw fasteners. The strongest fastener you can get, and aviation quality.
They usually run about 220,000 lbs tensile strength.

The equivalent metric fasteners are ..

Grade 5 = Grade 8.8 (this number is on the head).
Grade 8 = Grade 10.9
Grade 9 = Grade 12.9
Grade 12 = Allen Head socket screw fasteners with metric thread.

For all practical purposes, Grade 5 bolts will be adequate. Grade 8 is better. Grade 8 fasteners are more subject to corrosion, more quickly, than lower grade bolts, like all high grade steels.

The importance of tight-fitting bolts in the holes cannot be too highly stressed. Drilling a half inch hole and inserting a half inch bolt will soon see it come loose, as drills always make a hole larger than indicated size.

Mack make chassis bolts called "body-bound bolts". These have a larger diameter in the shank, for the bolts given size (a half-inch bolt will have, say, a 33/64" shank diameter.
This means that when you pull the nut up, the bolt is pressed into the hole tightly and expands the hole in the chassis member slightly. This means that the bolt hole will never flog out, no matter how much the chassis flexes.

You can do the same with the spring perch re-installation. Go to a larger diameter bolt than the original rivet diameter. Drill the hole slightly smaller than the bolt shank diameter.
So, for a half-inch bolt, you drill a 31/64" hole, then hammer the bolt in (using a soft drift to prevent bolt head damage).

Pick a bolt with a shank portion that is just a whisker longer than the thickness of the chassis member and spring perch, and use a spring washer under the nut. This way, there's full contact between bolt shank and chassis member.
Threaded portions of the bolt are usually slightly smaller diameter, and if threaded portions are in contact with the chassis member, the bolt hole will flog out.

Fine thread bolts give greater ability to apply tension to the bolt shank .. but fine thread bolts are a bugger to get undone when rusty. You need to reduce torque values by 10%-15% as compared to coarse thread bolts, when tightening fine thread bolts, for a given diameter. The same goes if you lubricate the threads.

Nyloc nuts, Loctite and spring washers all achieve the same thing. You need one of the three to stop nuts from coming off with vibration.

I trust you're going to build up with weld, that thin, rusted section of the chassis crossmember. Weld buildup, then grinding smooth, would be preferable to plating.