466 Bedford motor

Hi folks
I am a new member, and I'm in BIG TROUBLE ????? I have a 1971 BEDFORD BUS /MOTOR HOME , to try and cut a very long story short, we had leaking front and rear main seals , meet a bloke who I think is very sincere, who said he could fix them, I helped him in the caravan park in Goondiwindi , we got them done took it for drive, back seal started leaking a bit, after about 10 ks back to park ,discovered blue smoke kinda puff,puff puff,puff outa dip stick holder, mech said head gasket gone , ?? back to park, I happened to have a gasket set so we put that on. Off for another drive got about half a k, smoke started coming out of the manifold with oil leaking from rear 2 exhaust outlets,??? drove back to c/p and mech said must be head, took head off AGAIN sent it away to get planed , did need planing plus valves had liners put in I decided since we were this far along we should do rings, took them out they were very carboned up top ring almost invisible, found 1 broken ring on number 5. Had them cleaned up, seemed to look good, had local truck mech put new rings on for us . Then we put them back in to motor, told old engines dont like multi grade I had been using Penrite 20/60, so we filled er up with Penrite 30 grade, got her going and lot of blue smoke took her for run around park ,, and we had SAME PROBLEM ,, oil PUMPING out into rear exhaust outlets PLUS bubbles appearing along head area Mechanic scratching head and now says pistons may have worn NEED NEW PISTONS!!! and looks like head needs planed again plus new rings etc MY QUESTIONS ARE MANY?? BUT WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED
could it be the BLOCK is warped? head still warped after a profesional shop had done it ,,what should i do , it seems a lot of guessing going on ,, costing millions
Regards
Graham g

well graham..
almost impossible to diagnose from here, particularly with so many gurus missing what ever is wrong so far.
I have not had anything to do with diesel bedfords.
Is it definately oil on the last 2 pots?
Is it possible that it may be a mix of diesel?
Compression from the dipstick indicates "blow by' Compression leaking into the sump..bypassing the rings.
I might suggest thats why the mains were pouring oil rather than leaking??? old rear mains leak for years, usually little more than an iconvenience..
I would say this has been sad for a while..
Before you go any further...
It is no good throwing new rings in oval bores..
did anyone accurately measure the bores?
Sitting here...if the head is flat, valves inserted or re seated and crack tested, and the guides were replaced or checked..SIT IT OVER THERE ON THE BENCH.
If that engine has liners replace them.
If it does not, someone needs to bore the cylinders, this can be done 'in frame' but usually block out of the bus.
New pistons and rings..not the rings you just used!
A good quality head gasket, copper preferred but if you can only get a monotorque, i'd put it down on silver paint.
The injectors and pump should be checked also so as not to wash the new bores with diesel.
The time has come to do it properly..she's beyond the quick fix by the sounds of it,
I will ad Graham, i lived in a bus for 61/2 years
i know what its like to have engine parts in ya lounge! i did my first one in a parking bay south of Cairns in the 80's with little to no money also
Sorry its a long answer.
Thats the very best i can do sitting here.
There will be differing theories i'd say..
Good luck with it, pm me if you need any more info
regards
rick

Graham, I can only give you some causes for your symptoms
Oil leaks from the front and rear crankshaft seals can sometimes indicate worn main bearings, where they checked? and won't cause any smoke or blow by.
Puf Puf out of dipstick, is excessive blowby, or compression exscaping past the rings into the crankcase, also check that the engine breather is clear.
Smoke and oil in the exhaust manifold is generally crook rings, though if the inlet valves don't open that will suck oil past the rings as well, though you would notice the miss in the motor
A blown head basket will give you water in the oil and vice versa, a miss in the motor, but generally doesn't contribute to the smoke coming out the exhaust.
The motor sounds like it is knackered, what sort of engine is it? most of those old bedfords had motors in them that aren't expensive to replace.

466 beddy - cam
in the question title
chocs

Thanks to Rick and Big cam , another mechanic has agreed to help us out He has suggested new piston and rings dry liners have to come out using heat or weld or something be replaced check some of the bearings ,, we dont want to upset timing if we can help it he semes quite concerned re the head issue , Is it lickly the top of the block is warped , and can we determane that and fix it WITHOUT removing engine ??????
to do remove of liners , install new ones IF WE CAN FIND THEM new pistons and whatever it takes to get it going .. what would be an approximate labour cost
any ideas .. anyway we start again on Monday looking for parts etc and hope we get it right THIS TIME//

Graham - Professional engine repairers don't just re-assemble engines with new parts. They measure and check EVERY specification, to ensure that ALL parts conform to the factory specs.

There could be a number of things missed in the apparently slap-happy methods used by your mechanics.
The crankshaft could be twisted. The pistons could be the wrong ones for the engine. The head or a number of other components may be incorrect.

Too often, people who've operated on the engine before you, swap components without checking for correctness of fit.
Often, design engineers make engineering changes to components, and those changes mean that parts that look similar, may now be completely different, and these newly-redesigned parts, now only fit certain other components.

For example, heads can be redesigned with different cooling passageways that don't match earlier blocks. Pistons can be redesigned and the piston height or piston crown altered .. so that incorrect piston fit, results in pistons hitting the head or valves, or wrong compression ratios.

You really need to totally dis-assemble this engine, and check every part against the appropriate parts book .. and every component specification, to see if it's correct, and meets factory specs.
Even items such as flywheel runout have specifications, and need to be checked for conformity to those specifications.
When every component in an engine is checked for correct fit .. and meets factory specs via careful measurement .. the engine will perform as it left the factory.

Strange engine problems, in many cases, can be sheeted home to abuse causing damage (stalling under heavy load can twist a crank) .. incorrect parts used (swapping components from another version of the motor, that are incompatible, design-wise) .. or just plain slap-happy assembly, where nothing is properly checked.

When carrying out engine overhaul, a thorough crankshaft and block inspection is necessary, with every single item that contributes to engine running, checked thoroughly.
This involves everything from oil galleries, all wearing and mating surfaces .. right through to crack checking (block, head and crank) .. alignment of counterbores .. crankshaft inspection and rotation, to check for bends, twist or other faults (such as faulty crankshaft journal grinding, creating variations in piston height), and so on ..

It appears that your engine is suffering from one of the numerous possible faults such as I mentioned above, and needs to be stripped and carefully examined and measured, to find the fault, or faults.

You can keep throwing new parts at an engine that has a basic problem that goes unchecked, and all those new parts will be continually wasted, if that underlying problem isn't found.

Cheers - Ron.

Sum good advice from above
the difference BTween a Mechanic n a Fitter

Mechanic: removers old bits n fits new bits etc

Fitter: examines wot, where n how of parts th@ need replacing, looking for abnormal wear, cause of problem, check to make sure replacement parts will fit etc
LOL
@ times to find the problem
n the fix
U need to kno a bit about the history
Q:?
Wot twaz the most noticbly different thing the way the beast performed leadin upto all the trubles?
Have u added cold water to the low dry radiator when the engine is hot?
Has anything been changed/altered of late to the engine

Check for overheating:?? Thermostat, temp gage, water pump impellor th@ not eatn away with rust, water color,

off timing can also make a engine run hot

Air cleaner
make sure the connectionz n any hoses R air tight so not to suk in dirty air ( this will cause a engine to wear out fast

THis B only a small collection of wot 2 L@@k for!

BestOluk

Cya

[ch9787]

I'd nearly start looking for a truck with a motor in it, surly you could buy an old Beddy for a grand or so? listen to it run, if it's any good whack it in the bus, then Choc's can send the rest to China.

Short version of the excellent and detailed replies above .....

time to deal with real professionals instead of well meaning blokes you meet in caravan parks!

Gday graham, sounds like you are getting on the right track.
Too often these things end like this.
There is no doubt that plenty of well meaning people become involved and they are probably more than qualified to assist. Trouble is, if things don't go as planned, they become obligated to see the job through.
Sometimes as you have found the initial problem goes out the window with 20 other things going wrong,
No fault of the 'good bloke' assistant but more the result of 30 or 40 years of wear and tear in its former life of service.
As i said im am not familiar with the 466.
The mechanic will have a reference as to the liner heights etc. On many engines they sit up a bit to seal against the head gasket. With some careful measurements and a few years experience, ol mate should be able to get the ol girl singin' again.
In relation to labour costs..
If a bloke was short of work and had a sympethetic bone in his body...he may be on 20 an hour.
I thinl an average would have to be 50 -60 per hour.
A full 'dealer' workshop will be on 100 - 120 per hour.
You should be able to get a reasonable idea of the parts costs, the machining costs etc..ol mate the mechanic should be able to give you a rough idea for the labour...
It will be a rough guess though,,,there are plenty of variables.. Aim high, if it comes out cheaper, you have done well..
These comments are in my view only..others may disagree and thats fine.
Good luck with it all
regards
Chocs