Truck and pig into 19m

Just trying to figure out how much combined tray space you can get into 19m with a truck and pig combo and a bonneted model. Obviously BBC and back of cab to front of tray is model dependant along with bullbar, but what about trailer/tray clearance and draw bar length?

I was told by a couple of dealers 28' and 20' was pushing it with a cab over, let alone a bonneted. But now Roger from Newcastle Iveco reckons 28' and 20' is do able with a powerstar, image attached. And they have a long BBC compared to say a T409 or WS 4700 (which we considered then the manager wrote off because we couldn't get our desired 28' and 20'.

So what're peoples opinions - is the powerstar set up optimistic? Headboard looks real close to back of cab. But using his front of trailer to back of tray clearance and the drawing of a T409 with realistic (IMO) cab to headboard clearance we still get our 28' and 20' with 80mm to spare. But is 1020mm enough between trailer and tray - with say full height single deck cattle crates on both and going through a dip while turning?


powerstar and pig

T409 and dog, only to show T409 dimensions not actually considering a dog

Before anyone says it I know cab over would do it fine but that's a separate argument - I'm trying to see if a T409 (standard or SAR) or WS 4700 will get our tray space or if some will be sacrificed. Not considering a powerstar as spring bogie not an option. Want a factory long wheelbase so that kills a 4800 off.

Hi Wedgetail84, some operators in West Gippsland used this configuration with livestock, small properties in hilly country with narrow winding roads. Usually had the hitch as close behind the drive as possible for turning arc clearance
and better stability on poorer roads.
Most also used a telescopic drawbar so they could load stock through the pig trailer onto the tray truck. Air operated
locking pins on the slide made driver's job easier. 24' or 26' tray and 20' pig, might get 28' with the modern trucks
but would have to check dimensions carefully. Bit of shrewd design with the sliding drawbar could allow closing the
gap on the highway and more clearance on difficult tracks. Good luck with the project, cheers from Paul

I know a bloke who has a current model Isuzu & Dog trailer that carts Cattle. & he has 52 feet of deck, (28' truck 24' Dog) Like PaulFH said ringfeder almost touching the Diff, (Also makes it easier to reverse).
Most current trucks have down swept exhausts, so you can tuck the tray up nice & close to the cab..

I know your Question was for a Bonnet, but just telling you what's out there..

Thanks guys, good info. Interesting about having the hitch at the diff - then the only worry is making sure truck and trailer don't touch at extremes. So the drawing above maybe has the hitch too far back?

Yeah we were thinking of a sliding drawbar. I guess you could have it at over 19m on property/offroad and shorten for highway use...

And 52' with a cabover means we probably could get 48' with a bonnet.

T409 and dog, only to show T409 dimensions not actually considering a dog

You do realise that a 2 axle Dog Trailer can Gross 2 tonne more than a Bogie Pig Trailer...

www.nhvr.gov.au/files/201402-0116-mass-and-dimension-limits.pdf

Wedge
We have been running cubic truck and pigs for the last 25 years. We were running 51' bodies before there were 48'trailers. I will measure the gap between the tautliners on Monday when I get back to work if you want. That gap sounds close but should be ok. From memory the old Iveco was around 950mm and was for ever belting the bodies.
Bit of advice, I would tend to a short bonnet as these new trucks with underslung exhaust run bloody heavy over the steer. I have 4 of those mongrel Scania P320 and tare at 5.4 tonne over the steer. The close bodies throw it over with only 6 tonne of foam (fully loaded). Cattle are a bit heavier than foam. I would go the American route and steer clear of those bastard European things. I had an Iveco once-never never never again.
Good luck will get back to you with the measurements.
David

Thanks T, good point about the axle loading I hadn't thought about that with a cab over. If it were purely up to me it'd be a bonnet no question but it's not. I take it you're only allowed 6t max on the steer? No fear Iveco isn't on the cards...

Yeah if you could measure your gap that would be fantastic thanks

Wedgie, you are looking at some completely different trucks, if you want to compare a Western Star 4700 to a KW, compare it to the T359, they both use the same engine and driveline.

Why do you want a factory long wheelbase? Nothing wrong with a chassis extension that is done properly.

Those 2 drawings you've got are also completely different. What ever you go with, pretty much just subtract the bumper to back of cab dimension + about 1300mm for between the truck and trailer from 19M and that is your deck space. The length of the truck and trailer as well as the trucks rear overhang the dealer will work out with a weight distribution program.

It's 6.5 T on the front axle with a FUPS, both the 4700 and T359 you won't have any issues with front axle weight. The more power, the bigger the engine and the heavier it will be on the steer.

Well it's the manager saying a flat out no to chassis extensions, I don't have a problem. That's why the only WS we considered is a 4700. Obviously no KW have that restriction. Yeah having been considering heaps but that's a different matter.

The drawings are different I know - only put up the KW one to show BBC/stack/bullbar measurements nothing to do with the trailer. I was more wondering if the truck and pig was right on measurements. So you're saying it's more like 1300 (which means 48' is too close to call with a T409) between trailer and tray, meaning his 1020 is optimistic - you reckon they'd hit at that? Is it realistic to have two draw bar towing lengths - a legal 19m one and on offroad overlength one to make sure they don't hit at extremes?

Wedgy
Gudday M8

Most yanky trucks will make wot U want
they can make a long chassis on a shorter wheelbase truck = better manourverbility in tight areas (keep in mind max Overhang)
overall width =2500mm there for the minimum clerance wen turn n @ deck height would B half the width =1250mm
so add more D/Bar to allow the top of truck cattle deck to clear the front of trailer cattle deck ( yes a stretch out D/Bar B the answer... good 2 B able to slam the truck/trailer to gether with match n doors 2 walk the critters staright thru
to cut down O/H length Do U need a Bull bar?
a 2 axle dog should/would/could give U 9ton on each axle ( just make sure all each axle spacing meets the max for weight
a 2 axle dog with a drawbar/turning lock (like on Tippers ) B the go
for even loading the center of boggie drive should B near center of truck deck length

go visit a cattle sale yard on market day n check a few rigs out

Jist thinkn out loud from me armchair

LOL

cya