Eaton-Fuller VS Spicer

Just going over some old posts, notably the "S Model KW appreciation" comments and from what was posted of the build #'s and specs, they were almost exclusively screamers with Spicer Synchro-Master transmissions with a couple of exceptions, those being Spicer twin stickers.
So, my question is, just when did Eaton Fuller start installing the Roadrangers?
Some early Peterbilts used both, as did some Kenworths (I'm talking about ones that made it over here).
Wasn't all that long before E-F seemed to dominate the heavy truck transmission market and Spicer was relegated to the Auxilliary trans spot. Probably still much the same today.
I have heard of early Fuller (without the Eaton) transmissions with air operated "range change", mostly 5X2 (10speed), but only in the smaller units.
I can recall driving a very early RT 510 ten speed, behind a 185 Crummins, so they must have been around for quite some time.
Didn't seem to take long for the Roadranger to , as I said, almost swamp the market, they were putting them in just about everything (including some European as factory fitted, M-B 2632 for example).
Seems Spicer let it get away from them a bit, as did Mack in some ways, until they bought out their own "unishift". Euros seemed to almost predominately use ZF's.
Maybe like a lot of things, takes a while to perfect a device, once done it is accepted almost universally.
Eaton -Fuller certainly did something right, just witness the sheer numbers they made as well as the manufacturerswho put them in as almost standard equipment.
Have driven many E-F's over the years, always had a soft spot for the twin stick Spicers, but a lot of blokes will no doubt argue that for driver ease and comfort, the Roadranger was far superior. Been out of it for many years now, but just having even a casual glance at truck books, these semi auto or auto shift (or their Euro counterparts) or whatever they call them, have just about taken over completely these days.
Seems like even the family car (or 4X4 Toorak Tractor), if you want a manual, has to almost be a special order vehicle. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, natural progression, like power steering. You probably wouldn't drive without it these days.
Comments??

Cogz M80
The KW 'S' models were mostly short WB and the 12 speed spicer fitted well being short where by a 4x4 twin stik was a lot longer and needed a longer WB for every thing to fit in back in th@ era the main aim was for a short Primemover so a maximum length trailer can B 45 or 47feet overall length
we had a few 'S' with the 12 speed synchromaster but with our stop start suburban runnin they needed reracing about every 2 years
the 12 speeder had a 3 position gear selection th@ U could split every gear = 6 gears rhen lift the range button n start all ovr again = 12 speed with the low rang 6 gearsalso available in reverse via an air switch on the dash
I likes the cog box as every gear change seemed to have a 350 rpm drop thru out the 12 speeds

cya

Yeah, thanks Swishy, I dig the requirements for such a short w/b when you had restrictions for overall length.
Which makes me wonder what the ones with the twin stickers were bought over here for, am assuming they were for some special application, or maybe set up for running the outback on road trains/heavy haulage etc. Think from memory there were only ever half a dozen or so of that breed.
In that era, even a straight six/V6/V8 would have been major power.
What else was running around at the time? 220 Crummins. 673 or maybe 711 Macks?
That re-racing the box every two years or so would have been a PITA, were yours too short to replace with a R/Ranger? Or, they still hadn't made an appearance in such a SWB?

.Dave...……...
As I recall ………...the Road ranger boxes really came into their own when they introduced the twin
counter shaft boxes . making a much shorter box as well as a box that was reliable, driver friendly and
and reasonably priced, because they made so many of them.
Before that , the Roadranger name came on the scene with a 5 speed Fuller box and 2 speed auxillary
that was air operated giving a multi speed , single stick set up. However , these were a really long box
because both the box and auxillary were a single countershaft set up.
I cannot remember if these were constant mesh or not, I have a feeling they were sliding gears.
Before that the Fuller boxes were available with virtually the same setup , but with 2 sticks.
Some earth movers like Euclid etc, with 300 odd HP used the 2 stick set up before going to Allison ( or what ever).
I think Eaton bought Fuller out in about 1958, or there abouts...…….
By the time Spicer brought out the SST box , the road ranger had saturated the market .
My son had a SST Spicer in a KW behind an 892T with a B double and had a really good run from it.
Yeah, I think that Roadranger just put out a good box in the right time frame...……………
………………...Billy...……………….

Billy P,
Doing a bit of research and you are probably spot on, time wise (1958) Eaton swallows up Fuller, starts the twin countershaft revolution.
Back to original question, when the 'S' trucks came out, as Swishy said, idea was to keep the p/mover as short as practicable so as to maximise trailer length.
So, again going by the specs posted, why would you go for a short hood arrangement and yet order it with the twin stick Spicer. Wouldn't it defeat the purpose of keeping it as short as possible?
There were plenty of options around at the time if you were simply looking for higher horsepower or heavier duty application. Most cases, length of p/mover wouldn't worry you?
Dunno, may have it ass-backwards.
Interesting you mention the early Fullers in Euclids.
Many years ago when the Burragorang Valley coal was in full swing, down at either Brimstone or maybe Valley one or two, so bloody long ago I've near forgotton, anyhoo, there was a bit of an old graveyard down there, probably left over from when it was first developed.
One of those old Euclid prime movers or what was left of it after the rats got at it, one of those four wheel jobs, either used to be a scraper or more likely somebody said it was an old belly dumper. Whatever it was, it was long gone, probably cut up for scrap.
Had a 12V71 in it, or what was left of it after half of it had been swiped, and had a twin stick arrangement. Must have been a handful to operate when it was king of the (off) road.
What breed of box (es) it had I wouldn't know, maybe Fuller, possibly Clarke, the era it was built (I'm only guessing here, early to mid fifties) she must have been a hell of a big jigger. Shame about a lot of that old gear, had no value once it was flogged to death, just run the gas axe through it and get a few bob for it. Never see any of it around anymore, or well hidden anyway. Came across an old blurb from some obscure contracting magazine, photos of an old Euclid twin bowl, twin power scraper, only ever made 70 odd of them, couple ended up in NZ, don't know how many ever got here.
Something like 42 yard capacity with both bowls, 8V71 either end, still would have been bellowing going loaded uphill, would have been good to see in action. And, this way before B-Doubles even thought of!
Cheers, Dave

My 2 bobs worth, and remember I dunno 2 tenths of stuff all

When road ranger boxes went to air shift I think is when they took off
Remember Foden made a 12 speed box of their that was apparently good if you new how to use it
Mack had their quad box but just like Spicer, you had to know how to use it properly
Spicer just mentioned

Back to roadranger, even a novice driver can be shuffling threw the gears pretty good in a hour or so, other brands you find even after 6 months some fairly experienced drivers struggle at times with changes

ZF is pretty good from what little I know but I dont feel they could match a roadranger box for toughness

Macks Maxitorque are unbeatable for strength but are loud and long and heavyish and once again some people never master them. Also imagine paying big coin for a new truck and the gear sticks shake all over the place and they rattle and are loud

Thinking about all of this its pretty easy to see why roadrangers got the market well and truly sown up


Paul

Pretty sound summation there, Paul.
Almost forgotton those David Brown 12 speeds in the Friendly Fodens. Had the 4 forward positions like a normal box and a three position air change valve like one of those remote door openers on a bus, on the right hand side of the column, thus 4X3.
What was ERF using before they fitted them with R/Rangers? Seem to recall they had some weird 4 or 5 position stick with an air valve on the dash you flipped from side to side. Maybe a variation of the D.B. box. After all, they were closely related to Foden.
I too, liked the simple old 5 speed Mack boxes behind the old 237 &285 Maxidyne engines, could roll a smoke whilst waiting for the revs to die down enough to downshift. They must have taken a fair bit of torque as well, ran them behind the V8 Maxidyne, at their peak knocking out what?375 HP?
Or, what about the old Goverment AEC and Lyland/Albion city buses, straight 4 speed boxes. Admittedly they were geared for about 28 mph in top!
Seems back in the day you wanted to gear something up, or get a few more ratios, simply throw in an auxilliary box, most of the time that was the easiest way around it, they all did it.

I think the first twin countershaft RRs were the 910 and 915 in 1964......the thing about RRs were the cheap prices for parts .....and the exorbitant prices for just about all the Euro boxes....I recall buying gears for a few dollars each,and a new mainshaft for $50 ....Gleemans always had specials on RRs,new boxes for around $2000 or less....The early ones had a few fails too,the weld holding the range change gears to the shaft would sometimes break and destroy the box.........All the pommy boxes used to break gear teeth,and cost a fortune to fix.......bit like Jap truck boxes in the 80s .