Skip to main content

Mack Engines

More
13 years 5 months ago - 13 years 5 months ago #35208 by Atki-vated
Replied by Atki-vated on topic Re: Mack Engines
Great info you blokes. I worked for Mack Trucks NZ just after the Mack cool powers were introduced. The 285 was a Maxidyne (the mechanics reckoned they bent push rods if Dynatard was used too much). :(

Next came the 320 coolpower which was a Thermodyne.

So heres a question: what was the difference between a Maxidyne and a Thermodyne apart from the power rating? :-?

We also had the v8 Maxidyne @325hp and the v8 Thermodayne @375hp. The Maxidyne gave no end of trouble - the Thermodyne troublesome but not as bad.

Last edit: 13 years 5 months ago by Atki-vated.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
13 years 5 months ago #35209 by jimbo51
Replied by jimbo51 on topic Re: Mack Engines
Onetrack,

per T & BT 1973 specs issue, NTC335 had 930 ft-lb but at 1600 rpm so you couldn't lug them back like the Mack.

500 rpm practical working range versus 900 rpm for the Mack

Please Log in to join the conversation.

13 years 5 months ago - 13 years 5 months ago #35210 by
Replied by on topic Re: Mack Engines
jimbo51 - Thanks for the correction. I was drawing on memory cells, and not referring to spec sheets on the Cummins, as I should have done .. but when I went to check, I couldn't find the figures .. :(

Bruceatkifan - Well, as far as I understand, the Maxidyne models used the "Maxidyne principle" of increased air supply and a steady fuel injection rate as the RPM dropped.
The Thermodyne models, as I understand, just used standard turbochargers and the regular fuel injection method, so they weren't high-torque-rise motors.

The Maxidyne principle was extremely hard on the engines components .. and I'd hazard a guess that an ENDT675 would not stand up to the production of 320 HP .. as well as .. the massive torque rise, that would come with using the Maxidyne principle on the 320 Coolpower.
I can recall reading about the Maxidyne testing .. and after some serious road work with the new engine, the Mack engineers were stunned to find all the original head bolts stretched like Chinese furniture fasteners! :o
These head bolts of course, are made of some darn good steel .. but they still had to upgrade the bolts and redesign the Maxidyne head gasket to keep the engine in one piece.
I would say that the engineers deemed it prudent to cut back on the torque rise and just produce the extra HP, on the 320 Coolpower.
Cat did similar things with their engines. I can recall hi-torque-rise 3306's in the spec sheets .. but the HP is cut back on these engines.

Reliability for the long-term is always uppermost in the engineers minds .. they need to balance the lifespan of an engine, between one that just requires parts on a steady basis .. as against one that chews through parts so fast, it gets a reputation as a "dog" .. and people then refuse to buy them .. :)

Cheers - Ron.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Swishy
  • Offline
  • If U don't like my Driving .... well then get off the footpath ...... LOL
More
13 years 5 months ago #35211 by Swishy
Replied by Swishy on topic Re: Mack Engines

JuanTrak
GuddayM8

I'll swear I seen Scania sumwhere on this page



Can't have JuanTrak gutsn all of Bazil'z beer

;D

Cya
[ch9787]

OF ALL THE THINGS EYE MISS ................. EYE MISS MY MIND THE MOST

There's more WORTH in KENWORTH

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
13 years 5 months ago #35212 by bigcam
Replied by bigcam on topic Re: Mack Engines
That motor looks like the ones Scania used in the LB80.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
13 years 5 months ago #35213 by mammoth
Replied by mammoth on topic Re: Mack Engines
So, if a Mack motor is really a Scania how come people winge about mack now being owned by Volvo?

Please Log in to join the conversation.

13 years 5 months ago #35214 by
Replied by on topic Re: Mack Engines
mammoth - Well, I think that the difference is .. that Mack largely created their own trucks and their own engines .. and accordingly, built up a reputation for robustness .. which led to a loyal band of followers.
Despite purchasing Scania combustion technology .. and selling a couple of Scania engines in the Mack lineup .. Mack were independent truck designers, developers and producers, of a truck line with a long and respected history.

However, due to some serious management problems and planning imbalances .. they started to fall by the wayside, in the early 1960's. They recovered somewhat when they sold out to Signal Oil & Gas in 1967 .. but Signal Oil bled them dry .. and then CEO Curcios decision to sell out to Renault, was the final nail in the coffin.

With that move, we have seen the classic American Corporate move, to global economics .. that has since been the hallmark of .. and the destruction of .. American manufacturing industry .. and the destruction of the Americans pride in the design, development and production of, "good old Yankee Iron".

CEO Curcios move, is one that is now classic in Corporate America. Shaft the buyers and equipment owners .. shaft the workers .. shaft the economy .. and eventually .. shaft the U.S. taxpayers, too .... all in the name of corporate mergers .. corporate and short-term financial greed .. and instant, major rewards to CEO's, senior managers and shareholders.

Meantimes, these financial whizz-kids .. having little interest in anything but producing the "good numbers" on paper, for the end of the financial year .. would sell their technology to the highest bidder .. transfer manufacturing to anyone, anywhere, who might offer a 5 or 10% improvement in the bottom line .. and in fact, sell their grandmother .. if it meant a payrise or bonus that usually runs into the millions.

Personal and corporate greed has become the hallmark of America in the 21st century. Greed, accompanied by its ugly cousin - fraud - is the reason why the American economy .. and the country that is the bulwark of Capitalism and free markets .. came so close to total economic collapse on 11th Sept 2008.

No longer is there any pride in what America can design, develop and produce, within America .. and stand behind that product, that then generates great approval, and loyal brand-name followers (and purchasers).

Corporate America has sold Americans down the drain. They have sold American manufacturing down the drian. They have sold every item of American technology they can lay their hands on, to the cheapest manufacturer .. all in the name of short-term financial gain. They have run up a foreign debt so massive, Americans will still be deep in debt, in 100 years time.

Meantimes .. getting back to Mack .. the Renault saga was just the start of the rot. Renault executives and their CEO were cast in the same mold as the American corporate people. "What's in this deal for us, as a quick financial win? .. "

No real interest on their behalf in keeping up a consistent line of products .. or a steady supply of parts, for trucks already produced. More importantly .. those loyal Mack truck owners weren't to be given any more than 2 seconds consideration .. not when CEO's salaries & shareholders came first ..

Nope, it was all about the big numbers on the papers they presented to .. analysts .. financial executives .. shareholders .. and most importantly .. the huge bonuses and salaries to senior corporate people, that hung on those "good numbers".

These people have no concept of the balance of the relationships between .. the company .. its products .. its technology .. its workers .. its shareholders .. and the American public.

The balance is out of whack. Volvo are no more interested in Mack as a brand, or Mack buyers, or keeping the balance right between the aforementioned groups .. than Renault ever was.
As soon as Volvo sees a "quick quid" to be made from Mack .. they will abandon Mack, just as surely as Renault did .. with no concern for buyers, or owners, or for product line stability.

What corporate America has done to American technology .. American products and brand names .. and American manufacturing .. is to shaft them more effectively, than if the Russian Communists had been let in, to take over American industry.
They have destroyed good products .. many of them, long-standing names .. all in the name of fast, short-term financial gain .. to corporate executives, finance houses and banks, and shareholders. Everyone else is out in the cold without a blanket.

Owners, users, and buyers of American-designed and built, top-quality products .. sometimes for over 100 yrs .. have seen those brands discarded, dropped, ceased manufacturing, parts no longer available for them .. in the space of a few short years .. whilst the top echelon of corporate America, enriched themselves beyond belief.

$400,000,000 retirement bonus for an oil company CEO .. $20,000,000 bonuses for corporate leaders .. salaries that look like Lotto wins every month .. whilst the industries they were supposed to be championing were being steadily dismantled, carved up and destroyed .. all in the name of corporate greed.

These are the current processes, that are wrong .. wrong .. wrong .. in the current corporate climate. Lack of ethics .. lack of balance in the companies planning and management .. where shareholders & CEO's major payouts take first priority over maintaining excellent products and looking after loyal clients, in the shape of the buyers of their products.

As a result, people are disenchanted with what they are being sold. They want to order a 24K gold chain .. yet they get sold a plated base metal chain, with broken links .. and they're told that's the current best product line.
Volvo have no interest or links to Mack history or development. They care little, that there's a huge number of buyers, owners, and drivers out there, who have great loyalty to a product that established them, or even their parents.
This is a global marketplace, they're being told, by the corporate snake-oil salesmen. Live with it, don't expect any support from anyone, or help with problems that might have cropped up with our drive to keep the profits fat for the corporate end.

It's a far cry from the days when you knew the product was supported from the top, and the people running the company were intricately involved in product development and product lines .. and in ensuring that the loyal customer base was satisfied and rewarded.

Gordon Gekko not only survives .. he prospers .. and teaches ethics .. in the corporate world, in the 21st Century .. to the detriment of those who still seek 1960's quality American brand names, and products .. :(

Mack history .. www.answers.com/topic/mack-trucks-inc

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
13 years 5 months ago #35215 by prodrive
Replied by prodrive on topic Re: Mack Engines
Onetrack- Gee, that could be Australia you are talking about there! We are chasing America down the same route as quick as we possibly can .. "Quick! Sell! More! Bigger! More consumerism! Spend! Borrow!"... Gee, I wonder how THATS all going to end up...(hint- yep, look at America...)
Isn't it crazy, we see all this bad stuff happening in the world, then we do our best to follow it, as hard and as fast as we can..
But I guess the American style of manufacturing has itself to blame for a lot too. For example, my R Model Mack, much as I love it, gee the cab didn't change for how long? What about giving the poor driver somewhere to put his lunch? etc. etc. And I couldn't count the number of times I've had an S Line, or Louisville, honest decent rigs that they are, and so typical of the "Harley Davidson design"- that is, it doesn't matter if its crap, and there is absolutely no thought beyond making and selling. No interior room, crap quality control, shocking ergonomics, and so on. And then bitch and whine that they can't compete with the japs or europeans, and then go broke costing huge amounts of money and losing thousands of jobs. Maybe these big companies are just the same as COUNTRIES- (similar to what we were bitching about yesterday in Modern Truck forum). That is, we allow idiots to control the company / country / (world?) (Trucking industry?) then watch it all slide down the gurgler whilst bitching and doing nothing about it. :-[ :-[

Anyway aside from all that and back on topic, it's great that I've learnt about Maxidynes and Thermodynes, thanks for the info, chaps! Great stuff and very interesting. :) :)

Please Log in to join the conversation.

13 years 5 months ago #35216 by
Replied by on topic Re: Mack Engines
Prodrive - The management of many American, and some Australian companies, sure left a lot to be desired, even in the 1960's.

Failure to communicate .. to listen to customers complaints .. and fix problems, was the tip of the iceberg in the 1960's.
Allis Chalmers tractors had design problems that could be fixed .. but no-one in A-C management listened to the complaints.
If you complained, they would tell you that the design was just fine, and the problem lay with the way you were using the equipment.
A-C came close to knocking Cat off the perch in the late 1950's .. but they then slowly collapsed, when they refused to improve anything.
Like IH, their answer was to raise HP levels, ignore the engineers, and increase the marketing hype.

A-C and IH equipment often became unreliable, and people got sick of having their (justifiable) complaints ignored .. so they went elsewhere.

The Japs watched and listened and learned. The Japs made sure they produced what the buyers wanted .. and made sure the build quality exceeded what was available from America. The Japs won.

The management of GM managed to gradually destroy one of the biggest and wealthiest companies in the world with slack-ar$e management.
No understanding of the principles, that customers and products are what you build the company on.
No, they have to satisfy shareholders and fill their own pockets first .. and the customers are down near the bottom of the list somewhere.

America is now paying dearly for this paucity of management, and its obsession with financial greed. Every single decision is dollar-driven, and the decision-making is unbalanced.
In the hunt to gain even greater financial rewards .. the product .. its manufacture .. and its sourcing .. is sold to anyone prepared to pay the best figure that enriches CEO's, senior executives, finance houses and banks.
The last two suck off massive fees for conducting the global deals .. leaving the product quality bled dry.

We get trained up to expect regularly, that the top-quality item we used to buy .. may now come from any 3rd world country .. and you can expect quality problems just as part of the deal.
Of course, the item will proudly display the "stars and stripes" on the packet .. as some pathetic re-assurance, that the item you're buying, has actually had some American input.

Generally, the only American input into the item, has been some American CEO placing an order with some "cheap-as", 3rd world supplier, to provide the item at the lowest cost possible .. so the CEO can collect a bigger bonus next month .. ::)

I dunno where all this is going to end .. but I can tell you this much .. that product quality and stability, and brand loyalty, are things of the past.
You never know from one day to the next, what will happen to the ownership and production of the item you own, or are seeking parts for.
Maybe one day, it will go full circle .. and products will return to items of quality, and stability of ownership, and consistence of supply .. but I won't be holding my breath anytime soon, waiting for it to happen.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

13 years 5 months ago #35217 by
Replied by on topic Re: Mack Engines
Don't get me started on good old yankee Doodle
Mack parts. Try to get a GOOD radiator cap these days
they last about 3 months. Also a new door lock made in taiwan, lasted 3 days and the spot welds broke. Had to pull it out again and weld it up my self. The Mack brand has gone down the drain as far as i am concerned.





Please Log in to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.542 seconds