Electric vehicles and alternate fuel sources

Swishy

They nearly all have regenerative braking. Unfortunately there is no standardised system and some vehicles have single pedal drive/brake, others have double pedal braking and still others have steering wheel paddle controls. Some are fully auto while others have on'off or dial-up buttons. This is Ok in this experimental period but it is totally unacceptable in the real world once EVs become main stream. Their systems may be different but the controls must be standardised across the world for drivers.

Lang

Yes there are lists and there are lists, sort of what Paul was talking about.

Lang wrote:

Most cars come with a Level 1 charger which goes into your home wall socket. About 50% of homes will need to upgrade their power boards to cope. These chargers are only marginally acceptable as a full charge from nothing will take 24-40 hours depending on the vehicle.

This is pretty misleading Lang

This is assuming the battery is completely flat

Considering almost every single time the car is plugged it isnt totally flat the figure isnt even close to been accurate

Also remember that studies have shown the average journey is under 20km, lets assume thats one way, so we go with 40km maximum journey for 90% of people

The EV is probably still 85 - 90% charged so your charge time is likely to be only 3 or 4 hours

If people are gunna tell a story at least but reasonably accurate

And yes Swishman even back to the home made electric cars of the 60s had regenerative braking
Used to be called dynamic braking some years ago but buzz words from overseas have changed that

And will home switch boards need to be upgraded, most do already before we even think about electric cars but thats a whole different conversation


Paul

Paul

Not misleading at all, it plainly says from nothing.

All your averages are fine and there are probably several thousand percentage combinations of all the factors that can be put up for any equally likely every day situation. This is the problem with the whole subject as most attempts at putting real figures on stuff are preceded by things like "on average", "most commonly" or "most likely". I particularly like "in the pipeline" and "in the near future". You have to have a base point to get a handle on something. I could quite easily say it takes me 97 seconds to fill up the tank in my Nissan but someone could come back and say that is misleading and most people never let their tanks go empty so the real average figure is 54 seconds.

I think most people are smart enough to work out if it takes one hour for a full fill it will probably take about half that for a half fill.

The point we are all missing is it has taken us 150 years of continuous development of cars and the support systems of fuel facilities to be able to go out anytime, anywhere to hop in and drive unlimited almost anywhere in the world 24 hours a day non-stop with 10 minute refuels every 500-1,000km depending on the car. No pre-planning, no allowances for lost time, a jerrycan in the boot or even RACQ if you blow it will have you going in minutes to continue circling Australia. None of this is possible in the near future with electric cars. Even "Go and buy me some milk at Seven 11 and stick some fuel in the car while you are there, dinner will be ready in half an hour" is not possible. The car is no longer the servant but the master dictating the order of your life.

I am not anti-electric car, I am all for them but they are still highly experimental and will undergo many changes of direction as technology develops. I am pretty sure we will go through several 8 track tape and Beta Video periods where the industry is fighting battles for their own technology to be standardised.

I am also sure that we will reach a day when you can wake up at 3,00am and get on the road to Mount Isa, regardless of whether you just planned to go to the office in the morning with an adequate half charge left in the battery, knowing that there are numerous charging points along the way with a maximum 10 minutes from empty to full charge time. Only when we can do that will the car become our servant again.

Until that time EV buyers are pioneers whose efforts will eventually lead to a better world but even the "20km average" people undertake many trips to the Gold Coast or to see Mum in the Blue Mountains every year and at least part of their day and certainly considerations will be centred around overcoming the restrictions of their electric car.

We should be selling as many as possible as the numbers are miniscule and their usage very far from normal. Getting lots into the market will tell manufacturers what the vast motoring public needs not feedback from people willing to pay a premium price for a restricted mode of transport whose motivations are mostly entirely removed from transport considerations alone. We don't need look-at-me Teslas or electric AUDIs and Porsches we need millions of Nissan Leafs.

If you have a look at the sales figures of the types of EVs it is quite plain the buyers are not the average car user but those motivated by something and well heeled. Why would an average wage earner buy an electric car? Regulation, subsidies, crippling fuel taxes might force him to. Do we want that?

Let it come, as it will, naturally. Let us not force it and have an easy natural birth.

Lang

State of Charge, (SOC) is also not at a linear rate.
The time to increase SOC from 50% up to 60% is not the same as that required to go from 80% to 90%.
As the battery ages, it becomes more difficult to ever reach max SOC.
Just look at the battery info in your smart phone. Max SOC capacity starts dropping the minute you hand over the cash.
This is why the “average” recharge times are mostly an educated guess.

That is true Jeffo. What my mate said about his Tesla the other night and the risks of being tempted to just use continuous quick half charges and memory problems.

Lang

Well Lang Im not gunna waste any more time trying to explain this to you as you know more than me and thats okay, I have never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the shed and most likely an a few roos short in the top paddock

As I have already said Im not here to argue and Im not gunna bother even trying to explain it, I'll just share links and leave you to it

Paul

I don't want a battle with you Paul I know you come from a good place but it seems I just am not as certain of things as you. Lets get back to trucks.

Lang

I think I postulated previously that a huge capacitor in the garage of an EV owner would get around (up to a point) the shortcomings of (at least older) houses' current carrying capacity. It would charge up steadily all day until it's full. When you get home from work, you would plug into it and it would charge the car pretty smartly up to perhaps 3/4 full. This could come out of solar panels, if the owner had them. The remaining charge would happen overnight.
As it stands currently, I expect a "trip to the coast" (say, 3 hour / 200Km round trip) is pretty much already covered; one interstate, not so much.
Car parks with slow charging points for every bay will, I expect become a thing. This would generate extra revenue for them and seriously disrupt the existing fuel supply chain. (although I expect that to take a couple of decades +/-).
I have no interest in owning one, but eventually the wife's Forester will become old and need replacing.....(and she doesn't care what it is, as long as it's "nice").

Jarrod.

Some free EVs and other cars
From David Freiburger, he works for I think Hot Rod magazine and is very well known across the world of jot rodding


Paul


David Freiburger

I’m surprised this isn’t showing up much in my feed of gearhead stuff. A ship carrying 4,000 Audis, Porsches, and Bentleys is burning and abandoned, floating off Portugal. We don’t know how the fire started, but we do know that the EVs on board could not be doused. In 2019, VW lost another 2,000 cars the same way—and that ship went to the bottom. I Googled around to see if a burning EV will still burn while submerged but was unable to find an answer I trusted. Does anyone have facts on that (rather than opinions or rumors)? Like a link with the tech info? ANSWER: Based upon photos and links posted, it seems that EV batteries will typical stop burning within several hours to four days after being fully submerged in fresh water. I don’t know the salt water answer.