Quality of Australian Fuels

mammoth wrote:

Nowhere has such poor fuel as Australia so maybe cross reference to some old manuals.

Steve

You have mentioned Australian poor fuel before. What is your reference for this. I am not aware of special production of engines for Australia due to fuel but may be wrong.

I can see it has higher sulphur content (emissions) but how does this translate to modern performance. Even if it does I reckon, however much not up to latest specs, it is still vastly better than our 80 or 90 year old technology engines under discussion were designed to run on.

I don't know just like an explanation.
Lang

Personally I reckon our fuel is the best its ever been, diesel doesnt seem to wax up at all like it used to on heavy frosts and ULP never seems to go off at all these days

Thats my experience with fuel anyway, I do realize that a lot of other people have different experiences and these are just my thoughts and no fact or science behind it a at all

It has been decades since I have got a dirty tank full of fuel from a servo or even getting dirty filters is a thing of the past it appears

Paul

I think that as most/all modern petrol cars are direct cylinder injected ,its quite possible to sell a fuel that would not even work in a carburetted engine,and certainly not in a hand start type of engine ......so we are probably lucky to have a pump fuel that works at all...........i am also one who remembers when you had to "decoke" a car engine every 10,000 miles ,or it would not even get up a steep hill......and inlet valves like black lolliepops......something was added to petrol around 1970 that cured engine deposits .

Lang, According to This;

www.goauto.com.au/news/conflicting-claim...021-11-01/86245.html

Some of the Euro Carmakers Limit what they send to Australia because of our Fuel quality..!!

In Echuca we have a new BP station on the Murray Valley highway heading north on what will be the new truck route north when the new bridge opens. It opened over Christmas. While it's only one service station it has had issues with water in all the fuel.
Apparently when they put tanks into the ground they fill them with water settle them into the ground before the fuel arrives. The water is meant to be removed and the tank dried before they fill them with fuel. It appears this was only partially done, if done at all. Our local social media groups are full of photos of glass jars which were often 80% water with a bit of diesel or petrol on top. Complaints to the store manager get a response of "Ring head office to make your complaint".
Rumour is they couldn't legally just pump the water out any more as it was contaminated with fuel so it needed to be pumped into tankers and carted away for treatment. Apparently they normally just pump it into the stormwater drain. Apparently they dealt with it by topping up the tanks with fuel in the hope that it would effectively make a shandy with the water. There hasn't been any complaints for a few weeks so either the problem has been fixed or locals are not buying fuel there any more! There are 6 other service stations in Echuca and 3 in Moama plus at least 2 dedicated "truck only" unmanned fuel points so there is a fair bit of choice. The new BP is the only place with on-site parking for more than 3 to 4 trucks and freshly cooked food. The united has plenty of off street truck parking but no restaurants and 1 Ampol (on the roundabout) has food but most parking is on street. The other Ampol seems to have shut it's restaurant but does take away type food only (ie no roast meals, just burgers and chips, dim sims etc).

The more generic problem with our fuel is it's usually old by the time it gets to the service station. Most of it is refined elsewhere, shipped here, then distributed meaning it's already a few weeks old when it gets to the service station. If it sits there for another week or two it will have started to go off and that's before it sold!

From time to time our local fuel station floods and they have to remove the contaminated fuel, treat it and then put good fuel back. I have no idea what the exact process is nowadays but they tended to say that they pump the fuel out, treat it onsite and then return it. This is what I was told by one of the attendants there once. Oliver1950 may have the answers to this one.

Dunno whether I can add much to the "dodgy fuel" debate, I tend to try whenever possible to use just the one local fuel outlet as it would seem the amount of fuel dispensed means that it seems to always be reasonably "fresh".
In a dozen years in the district I can honestly say that I have never up to this point, had any crook fuel.

With modern diesels, it would seem imperative that you use only grade A fresh fuel, whenever possible. I realise there are some who may have to use drum fuel, which may pose a problem.

Going back to when I was running my own NH250, it maybe wasn't as critical, I did get the odd batch of bad fuel back then, but either a large coke bottle of super in the tank, or failing that, methylated spirits, never seemed to do her any harm, in fact prolly went towards "de-coking" her a bit, blew the odd bit of flame.
Many blokes used to reckon that the old Perkins wasnt on song unless she was breathing a bit of fire!
Wouldn't do, to do it these days I'd reckon!
Dave_64

Totally off topic Dave but you brought back a memory of crawling up Cunninghams Gap at midnight (no cars in those days) in the old Commer Perkins with a short pipe out between the fuel tank and back tyre. Just for the hell of it I turned the lights off and drove the whole climb on the red line in whatever gear using the light of a 3 foot flame across the road.

Anyhow back to fuel.

Unless a fuel tank is topped right up it will produce condensation and there is no way of getting around water at the bottom. All bulk tanks cater for this with sumps and raised intake pipes. They have regular test and draining procedures.

From an aviation point of view every first flight of the day requires a fuel drain into a container. You just keep draining from each tank until it runs clear. Those of you who have driven fuel tankers on airfields and elsewhere have the same procedure every day and after each refill. For both the aircraft and tankers you will get water almost every time. A lot of truck drivers may have noticed the water trap in-line filters fill up much quicker in cold weather if tanks are left low overnight or for a few days.

I read an article years ago in a British magazine addressing the steaming exhaust smoke on cold mornings and even water dripping out of the exhaust pipe. It was a combination of very high humidity intake air, cold exhaust pipes and surprisingly condensed water coming through the fuel lines from the tank.

The tank water was usually only a few spoonsful because the air in the tank had condensed its water in the walls overnight and this trickled to the bottom of the fuel. The engine can handle the small fuel/water mix for a few seconds, another reason it requires choke and runs rough for a short time after a cold start.

In the closed tank (the small air vent is not sufficient to allow circulation and exchange with the outside air) the next time it cools has air with much lower humidity and the problem ceases until you get low and fill again then suck a fresh lot of moist air in as the fuel level drops. Filling many times during a busy day does not give the air time to condense and the tanks are usually too warm from engine heat air to create condensation anyway.

Water in petrol tanks is an inconvenience but water in diesel or jet fuel is very problematic as it carries the dreaded black-death - gladisporium resanae - which grows in the interface between the fuel and the water. Many a truck, jet aircraft and particularly boat engines have stopped with blocked filters from the bacteria.

Additives such as Prist are essential in aircraft and boats and very desirable in trucks or bulk tanks which sit for periods. As well as anti-bacterial it also contains an anti-icing agent to stop any water crystals forming in the lines at sub-zero temperatures (every flight for most turbine aircraft).

Nothing beats continuous running and fuel filling to use up any water progressively. If a truck, aircraft or boat are to be left for a long time tanks should be full. Service stations with high turnover are OK eradicating water in small doses as it arises. Service stations with low turnover must keep their tanks full to avoid condensation but unfortunately these little bokes can not afford that and only get deliveries when very low. These are the ones who must be super vigilant with their daily water check and pump-outs.

Lang

There was whole chain of service stations both here and NSW were selling recovered paint thinner as petrol........once a week would be a car owner on telly saying they wrecked his engine........The states couldnt do anything about them (or wouldnt),but the owners ended up in the
slammer for selling motor spirit and not paying the excise.....a federal Customs and Excise Offence.

cobbadog wrote:

From time to time our local fuel station floods and they have to remove the contaminated fuel, treat it and then put good fuel back. I have no idea what the exact process is nowadays but they tended to say that they pump the fuel out, treat it onsite and then return it. This is what I was told by one of the attendants there once. Oliver1950 may have the answers to this one.

I have no idea Cobba. When the Sydney to Newcastle pipeline was in use the different grades of fuel were separated by water.When it arrived it was run through a separator and then put in the appropriate tank.
There are only 2 oil refineries left in Australia.Most of our fuel comes from the Singapore refinery, at any time there is only enough fuel in Australia for 7-10 days