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Anyone know what this six cylinder sidevalve is out of?

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1 year 1 month ago - 1 year 1 month ago #245956 by BalkaRoo
I have just registered on your very interesting looking site to try and identify this side valve six cylinder engine ! A friend grabbed it when he was giving a mate a hand to clear out a family home that had been sold. It was heading to the tip, and like me he hates to see things dumped that might be useful to someone. He had it on his trailer when he called in and we discussed what it could be. I suggested Dodge power Giant, someone else wondered about International, and vet another has a straight eight Pontiac, and the similarity's to that engine were pointed our making us wonder if there could be a GM connection. After some comprehensive "Googling" it doesn't appear to be any of these.
This engine has a few distinctive features, The abridged water jacket, where the jacket is not continued to the bottom of the cylinder, allowing the cylinders to be clearly seen, the spark plugs positioned down the cylinder head with even spacings not in pairs as is more usual, the head studs being arranged three each side of the cylinder in line not with one centred over the cylinder on the edge of the block, and the one I have "never" seen before, a cast iron timing cover that is one of the things bolted to the front cross member mount(sorry, no photo of that one). Other than that fairly conventional, and for an engine of its era I would say reasonably large, making us think it would be a truck or industrial machine engine of some sort.

Anyone got any ideas?





Last edit: 1 year 1 month ago by hayseed. Reason: Inserted Pics.
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1 year 1 month ago #245957 by V8Ian
Welcome to the forum Balkaroo, sorry I can't help with your question, but it will be identified by someone here, cue Lang or John.
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1 year 1 month ago - 1 year 1 month ago #245958 by Lang
Absolutely no idea but this 36 Studebaker is looking close.



Correction - no it is not. I was looking at the water outlet position but the distributor drives are top and side not matching.

I might lean towards a Chrysler product?


Lang
Last edit: 1 year 1 month ago by Lang.
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1 year 1 month ago - 1 year 1 month ago #245959 by Lang
How about an International -green? - Diamond?

Last edit: 1 year 1 month ago by Lang.
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1 year 1 month ago #245960 by BalkaRoo
Thanks Ian and Lang,
IHC possibly "green diamond" was one of the first suggestions, along with Dodge power Giant, but neither of those engines have the short water jacket, and the Chrysler thermostat housing bolts are on a different plane, with the bolts across the head rather than along it and Dodge engines have their spark plugs in pairs, not evenly spaced. It is a fairly large engine, bigger than any Studebaker I have seen, but I have only seen champion and commander car engines, and from memory they don't have the short water jacket. The closest I have found up until now is the Pontiac, but the head bolt positions aren't right for it to be one of them. The Pontiac "does" have the short water jacket and the spark plugs evenly spaced down the head, but the straight eight version and the photos of the six cylinders clearly have the "Indian head" logo cast into the block in the same way IHC use the three diamond logo on theirs. There is apparently a GMC version of the Pontiac engine used I think 1938 but I can't find a photo of one to compare. All these engines use the correct basic layout for oil pump distributor and fuel pump, but other specifications are not quite right. I still haven't been able to find anything with the cast iron timing cover that has one of the front mounting points bolted onto it as either. The photos I have posted are just some one of the blokes took on his phone at the time and I never worried about getting any myself because I thought it would only take a couple of minutes "Googling" to ID it. If I cant ID it in the next few days, I am going out to where it is next week, I will take some more detailed photos then and look more deeply at numbers on the castings and accessories.

I actually thought it would be a simple process to identify this, but its proving to be more complicated than I had expected'
Thanks for the ideas,
Graham
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1 year 1 month ago #245965 by wee-allis
For what it;s worth, my 34 Plymouth had the water-jacket in the block just like that. It's too long ago and with no pictures, I can't remember the spark plug layout. I once tried to fit a 37 block in it while I was rebuilding the original and all went well until I tried to fit the starter motor, using the 34 bell-housing, As the starter is fitted closer to the 12 o'clock position. on the 34, it fits in the "narrow" part of the block where there is no water jacket, therefore it wouldn't fit with the fully jacketed 37 block .
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1 year 1 month ago #245969 by Southbound
It looks like the engine in my 1934 International C1 except for the cast iron timing case. The engine number prefix is HD then 5 digits.

I'd rather have tools that I don't need, than not have the tools I do need.
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1 year 1 month ago #245970 by mammoth
1920's Continental (and their copies) used cast iron timing cover and a single point engine mount on the front. There were a multitude of permutations on how the various external components were arranged. Although they supplied to many different brands there is precious little information on their pre-war production. There were other generic engine makers, with even less known about them.
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1 year 1 month ago #245975 by BalkaRoo
It looks like I am having to get the numbers to try and track something down !
Southbound, it could very well be IHC and in my recent googling's it was said on one site that IHC purchased engines from "continental" during the 30s, so it could be what both you and Mammoth suggested so thanks guys. From what I have seen on line, neither Continental, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, or International used the bolt spacings on the head like this one has. It only has seven bolts holding the side of the head, most of them have eight with the two on each end being closer together allowing the centre six bolts to hold the edge of the head inline with the centre of the cylinder. If its continental it may have to be identified by the numbers anyway, because they made so many designs over such a long period it may be near on impossible to sort out anything by simply looking.

Thanks again Guys,
Graham

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1 year 1 month ago #245976 by hayseed
My Father in-law has an old Oliver Tractor with a Waukesha Engine that has a Cast timing case. & from (foggy) Memory looks something like That...Maybe.

"Be who you are and say what you feel...
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don't mind...
And those that mind....
don't matter." -
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