Truckie shortage

Some very relevant points in amongst this lot so far and I dare say it could go on forever...
There are plenty of so called 'professionals' in many trades...
Doesn't mean to say they are any good...Just says they have a ticket and they charge accordingly.

Personally...I think it gets right back to some basics..
Whilst no one wants to see anyone get hurt, damaged or whatever...
Plenty of blokes drivin around in big gear today that have got to where they are without a whole mess of paperwork and the associated bullshit that goes with it..
Maybe they are just lucky?

Something that has been a little overlooked so far....
PENALTIES...
Yes, we need rules and regulations, it would be chaos without at least some of them.

Perhaps some people are unaware of the penalties that are imposed on someone trying their very best to complete a days work?
Of course there are a few out there that could do with a kick up the backside..
But, there a plenty that are blowing a weeks wage or more for some very minor infringements..
The ol truckie is a pritty easy dollar sometimes it seems..
Are we able to name another industry with a similar rate of reward that cops so much regulation and the hefty fines and demerit losses??
The ol truckie doesn't start with any more points than ol mate workin in a shop..but by hell he can loose them a bloody sight easier!
Why would anyone , GIVEN AN OPTION, take up Truck Driving these days??

Anyway...it will be interesting how it all pans out..




Stay Safe

chocs

.Some one once asked me some thing...........
and I said "that's a good question & when I think of a good answer ...
I will let you know."".............
so how did us old blokes become a truck driver......
A fair bit of luck for a start......as in being in the right place at the right time or
starting on the mechanical side (which was a good step up)
But generally it was a slow process working your way from smaller stuff up to the heavy gear.
Mostly money was not the priority........to day money is every thing just to exist.
As for driving tuition......most of it was self gained experience,,(as in"" jeezus" that was close...
remind me not to do that again)
BUT with the weights and speeds of to day....that's not really an option.
You cant jump into a big plane with out knowing exactly how to fly it.
So would truck simulators be the way to go???????????
THEN, how to get new recruits .....(good question?????????
The love of the job has to come into it...............
The money has to be right................
You have to feel you are not being hounded to death............
So...........how to fix it ..........Good question............
..............................Billy.........................

Yeah! Cupla really valid points there, Chocs and Billy P!

I know it doesn't directly correlate with simulated truck driving, but with today's advanced technology, maybe it mightn't be all that difficult for some of these younger techno-nerds to come up with some sort of computer program. After all, if they can come up with similar things for airplanes, choppers etc, shouldn't be all that difficult. Better than dashing off a licence and letting some of them loose on the roads! Even Formula 1 uses simulators. Cost may be prohibitive, I don't know.
As far as getting the right blokes with the right attitude to take it on, it may be a case of natural wastage weeding the unsuitable ones out? Going back some years ago, most of the major players had a system in place where you would front up in a presentable fashion with perhaps a few references under your wing. They'd give you a bit of a quiz and then throw you in with a senior driver for a short stint. He would then have the say if you were worth further trial. I could be wrong but I am inclined to think that more notice is taken of what sort, or rather just who you attained your licence through. Even that seems to have been modified from the days when a company would select a certain number of blokes who had displayed their competence over a period of time, and put them through some sort of advanced course, be it dangerous goods, B-Double or Road Train. Costs of putting blokes through that have probably escalated (like everything in this modern world) to a point where it's no longer economically viable? What I have read, heard about it these days, most potential employers want the trifecta before they will even consider someone for a possible start, B- Double ticket, D.G.licence as well as fork lift. That in itself would no doubt be a not inconsiderable cost to anyone trying to get a foothold into the industry. Already been pointed out that Insurance companies won't entertain anyone under the age of twenty-five, in most cases. No doubt plenty of young guys out there really do want to join the ranks, but must feel horribly disappointed once they hit the same old problem of employers wanting blokes with a minimum of 4 or 5 years eperience, yet not wanting to give those same blokes a chance to gain said experience. Talk about a Catch-22!
Dave_64

This thread started wth the announcement there is a shortage of drivers but many of the posts say how hard it is to get a job. Obviously there is plenty of work, at least enough for the employers to require superior experience and qualifications to get a start. The height of the fence changes according to the economic climate and if it is too high they will lower it to allow just the right number to get over, if they have too many people, they will raise it to keep only the top level getting over.

I think many truckies just don't get it. Whether we like it or not, education (not just maths and physics) is a result and a requirement of the modern world. In the 60's the accountant at TOLL would have had a 2 year tech college course today that same bloke would have to have a Masters and fifteen letters after his name including an MBA. The operations manager who used to be drawn from the legends of the road brought inside to run the trucks is probably now a bloke who has degrees in management and was previously successfully running a large supermarket never having driven a truck. The company made hundreds of thousands, today it makes billions.

If you left school at 14, worked in odd jobs until old enough to get a licence then, if you were any good, you could finish up as senior driver in a big fleet. If you were a complete dud you could still find work somewhere doing local delivery. In 2016 there are people out there who still think it is 1966.

The vast majority of current laws pertaining to the trucking industry are for the better. The OH&S that everyone complains about was conceived and continues to be fed by the unions - not the Government or employers. Is our world a safer place - yes. Is the social and monetary cost worth whatever advantages ???????

Whether you agree with it or not we now have many standards where there were none. By meeting these standards you can demonstrate to an employer that you are willing to gain knowledge about your work and have a minimum understanding of many facets of the work (not just turning a wheel). If you can say "I have a Dangerous Goods ticket, a forklift ticket, basic requirements for entry to mine sites etc" aren't you making yourself immediately more valuable than the 5 other applicants whose total sales pitch is "I can drive a truck"?

These courses are available everywhere and they are not difficult. They need not be all done at once but as time and finances allow. You want a company to take a risk on you and hand over a half million dollar machine. Surely it is worth taking a risk on yourself and making an investment on a little training that will be returned 100 fold in the long run (and might even save your or someone elses life).

Us old guys will go grumbling to the grave but in 2016 anyone under 40 who does not do something like suggested is digging himself into mediocraty and even failure. Get with the program, be a professional truckie not just a steerer.

Dave_64 wrote: No doubt plenty of young guys out there really do want to join the ranks, but must feel horribly disappointed once they hit the same old problem of employers wanting blokes with a minimum of 4 or 5 years eperience, yet not wanting to give those same blokes a chance to gain said experience. Talk about a Catch-22!
Dave_64

Apprentices start at the bottom and work their way up..
Road Transport shouldn't be any different..
Get into a yard and gain an understanding of people, freight and equipment.
Start out on a forklift and learn about loading and freight care.
Move onto local deliveries...
Hone the skills that will be required as you move into bigger gear..

If you don't like the working environment of Road Transport, move away from it.
Make a space available to someone who has the passion and wants to make a career out of it..


chocs

Lang wrote: The OH&S that everyone complains about was conceived and continues to be fed by the unions - not the Government or employers. Is our world a safer place - yes.
Is the social and monetary cost worth whatever advantages ???????

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the Key to the problems of; not only the Transport Industry But,
of the World we live in. In general.
In My Opinion..

Great discussion fellas, I know we can never "fix' anything, but it is the interchange of ideas, and the minds that are open to new thoughts, that counts. As Lang puts it, the old days are gone, whether we like it or not, and we have a choice as to accept it or not.
Me PERSONALLY, don't like the modern day world, where the "ticket" and the Hi-Vis are everything, but thats just me, and I know I'm not going to change the world. I do fail to see how anyone can be convinced that it is better for a young bloke to have a handful of tickets, and done all the courses, than it is to learn as Chocs says- from the ground up. But the unions have pushed all this in the name of "safety" (like all industries) and we, as an industry, have done pretty much bugger-all to shape the way the world sees us, except the occasional gripe here and there.
A couple of things have occured to me though,
1) SKILL LEVEL- with the continual "dumbing down" of our society in general, a big company doesn't NEED to have people come up through the ranks, like we used to. They can put any gumby (457?) person in an automatic truck, with lane assist, cruise, brake activation and all the electronc gadgets, and send him off on the new freeway, all the way to Sydney , and he will never NEED to change a tyre. He doesnt need to be a truckie, he just needs to steer that OvlovDafScanina or whatever it is. (until it all goes pear shaped of course, but ususally it all works....) And this is rapidly going to get worse, with all the technology they are bringing in. Pretty soon, the truck will be driving itself, you'll just be a systems moniter...It's probably closer than we think.
So maybe, us fellas who pride themselves on being just a LITTLE bit capable, ARE REDUNDANT!!!! Hmm, the answer to that is probably scarier than you think...
2) The answer to a shortage of truckies, is very probably A SHORTAGE OF TRUCKIES! if you think about it, in the cycle of supply and demand, what happens when things get scarce? Yep, prices go up. So if truckies get scarce, prices/ freight HAS to go up- as long as someone up there doesn't see the answer to all this as importing more 457's etc....
So perhaps THAT is where the pressure should be- on not just importing more people to fill these jobs, but making our country accept that young people need to be trained, older and more experienced people need to be respected and renumerated in a better way, otherwise you wont HAVE any drivers???

What say you?
cheers!
Rich

Yep There is a lot of sides to the question............BUT.........
If the younger generation just don't want to drive trucks........what happens
then..........just look at any paper with classifieds and see the amount
of driver positions vacant.......
the old saying about the horse and water.
may be the driverless unit is the way of the future.
.......................Billy.....................

A very valid post Lang, Thank You.

In relation to training etc...Yes, absolutely..

I have noticed in the past that there have been people 'sent' off to do various levels of 'training' as part of their skills toolbox, which would hopefully enhance their chances of future employment.
Some people that I have met personally, have opted for the training to continue their level of benefit and I would suggest many of them would have been better left alone with a playstation and a stubbie of beer .
They are very well ticketed.. on paper only. They haven't gone on to future development of their newly gained certification.....Almost a waste of resource in some instance.

If people want to work in a chosen field they need the skills, but they need to want to work in the first place..
Horses for courses.
Irrespective of the chosen field, everything has advanced and will continue to.
Some of the old skills are still very valid when teaching the new kids on the block.

chocs

Is truck driving a skill, a trade or a profession?

I think we can write the formal qualification profession out of the equation except for generic use such as "professional conduct"., "the profession of truck driver" or "professional standard"

The idea of Chocs and others to have some sort of evolving training on the job is good but produces one dimensional people. You work your way up in a company who specialises in say cotton and wheat but learn nothing of general/heavy/dangerous/liquid/freezer etc operations. Some places will not let you touch anything others will have you operating everything that comes in. Some places have people who are willing and capable of imparting knowledge, others have nobody. How do you track all this different experience to give a potential employer something to judge?

A bit like doing 4 years at a Holden dealer and being apprentice of the year. Next day as a qualified mechanic you have to admit "I am sorry, I have never worked on a Landcruiser I will have to Google how to find the fault"

At least the mechanic has universally accepted milestones he must reach. Every employer knows he has done not less than x hours on a wide range of skills including many hours in a classroom. In other words there is a STANDARD.

Learning on the job in the yard with no set universal standard says to me 'Hang around long enough and anybody can drive a heavy truck". It is back to the future.

The elephant in the room here is - Anybody with an IQ above a soccer score, who can ride a bike without falling off can learn to drive a truck.

What we are talking about is standards, Professional standards. There is no standard without knowledge. There is no standard without formal identifiable benchmarks. There is no standard without personal discipline and pride in the result. There is no standard without respect for your fellows, employer, customers and those sharing the road with you.

Without formal training, recognised tickets and proper skill testing the truck driver will continue to be just a journeyman worker with a particular skill and unable to command universal recognition (and pay). I can't see this changing. All you can do is to prove to your potential employer your knowledge (with tickets) and your experience (with references). When starting out tickets will get you ahead of the ruck, later on good references will make those tickets diminish in importance.

With few universal standards (not legal regulations) maybe truck driving is the last outpost of survival of the fittest and may the best man win. Pretty sad if it is. You get the best of the best and worst of the worst this way but it is no way to run an industry and have truck drivers recognised for their worth.

Lang