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Old Atkinson Identification

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2 years 5 months ago #227826 by Inter-Action
Can someone help me date an old Atkinson p/m. The cab frame is wooden, Gardener engine,6 speed g/box, split windscreen curved on outer corners.
It has air brakes not quite s cam. Diff drives on top of both housings. Twin h/lights. Windows are slide up and down with no winder mechanism.
I can probably get photos if needed.
Any info would be much appreciated.

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2 years 5 months ago - 2 years 5 months ago #227827 by Lang
Replied by Lang on topic Old Atkinson Identification
Is this the one or earlier? This shape is early to mid-70's


Or this? (This particular one is Cummins powered)
Last edit: 2 years 5 months ago by Lang.
The following user(s) said Thank You: cobbadog, PaulFH

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2 years 5 months ago #227828 by Inter-Action
What took so long for the replies? Yes that looks pretty close even down to the name plate above the cab. Not sure about the hubs. These diffs have a fin casting on the top of each housing the tailshaft runs through?

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2 years 5 months ago #227829 by Inter-Action
What took so long for the replies? Yes that looks pretty close even down to the name plate above the cab. Not sure about the hubs. These diffs have a fin casting on the top of each housing the tailshaft runs through?
First one , dark blue.

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2 years 5 months ago #227830 by Lang
Replied by Lang on topic Old Atkinson Identification
from Mr WIKI


Atkinson nomenclature
This was very simple in style, and a system that in its basics, lasted from 1933 to 1975 consisting of a number for weight (initially estimated payload, but after 1964[7] maximum gross vehicle or gross-train weight) then a second number for wheels and then the number of cylinders, assuming initially vertically mounted Gardner LW series engines.

Thus an Atkinson 646 would have been a 6-ton payload 4x2 wagon with four wheels and a Gardner 6LW engine.

A 1066A would have had a ten-ton payload, to 6x4 layout and an AEC (seven-seven) powerplant.

During the 1950s as well as the already-existing suffix for engine-type, prefixes H, M and L (for heavy, medium and light duty frames) were adopted, the Alpha had a second prefix P (for passenger) Thus an early Alpha could carry the code:

PL745H (H used for horizontal Gardner engines)

By the mid-1950s Alphas had pre-prefixes depending on whether they had overdrive constant-mesh (C, for coach) or direct-drive synchromesh gearboxes (B, for bus) hence BPL745H for the first 18 Venture examples, the last six being CPL745H.

The double-decker had the unique frame-code D. Whether that stood for double-deck or dropped frame is not clear, but the PD746 designation given to the two built showed a seven-ton payload, four wheels and a Gardner 6LW. Assuming somebody would have wanted a pantechnicon with a dropped-frame at that time from Walton-le-Dale, it may have been a D746.

Relaxation of legally allowed length and widths resulted in further suffix letters: The first two Sunderland buses were L644LWs (lightweight frame, six tons, four wheels, 4LW engines, long wheelbases, wide-track). The New Zealand survivor is given as an L644XLW (extra-long, around 33 ft long).

The final three Alphas were coded PM746HL, viz: passenger, medium-weight frame, six-tonne payload, four wheels, Gardner 6HLW engine, long wheelbase.

Later Atkinson codes included T3246RR for a 32-ton GCW Borderer with a Rolls-Royce Eagle engine. A Rolls-Royce-engined Borderer was T3446RR220 or T3446RR280[8]

The work with the Alpha was also taken into Atki's mainstream wagon business, there were Atkinson customers, particularly breweries, who ordered underfloor engined Atki wagons, enabling a three-seat cab. The platform body had a trap in it so the (Gardner 4HLW) engine could be seen to. Sentinel, Albion, Guy and Dennis had also done the same but not as reliably because they did not use a Gardner.

External image
image icon "Atkinson Defender KVT 604 P: The very last Atkinson built, Gardner-engined 'Defender' chassis number FC29941, reaches the end of the Walton-le-dale production line in April 1975..."
Atkinson merged with Seddons of Oldham late in 1970. The last "true" Atkinson, a Defender 8-wheel rigid bearing chassis number FC29941, was built at Atkinson's Walton-le-Dale works in 1975. It went to G & B McCready of Newcastle-under-Lyme and carried the registration KVT 604 P. Today it remains with them.[citation needed]

Alongside Seddon's facility at Oldham, the Atkinson works assembled the Seddon Atkinson 400 Series and also the first batch of the new 401 model, before closing at the end of 1981. Oldham remained operational until late 2004, when production was moved to Spain.[2]

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2 years 5 months ago #227831 by Inter-Action
Should have added. Having trouble finding any I.D. Plate. Thought front left hand chassis rail?
Thanks for the info so far. Great !

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2 years 5 months ago #227832 by Lang
Replied by Lang on topic Old Atkinson Identification

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2 years 5 months ago #227835 by Inter-Action
Thanks for all the feed back and photos. Still would like to find a chassis number. Any clues where i may find
i.d. plate to date this old truck.?

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2 years 5 months ago #227838 by mammoth
Replied by mammoth on topic Old Atkinson Identification
The wrap round screens on a fibreglass cab came into being in 1958. Sales people probably recognised that while all the chassis codes excited the train spotters it didn't do much for marque loyalty. So in 1968 a series of model names were brought in; 4x2 prime movers were Borderer; 6x4 was searcher; and eight wheeler was Defender. A heavier duty version was Leader. The cab was revised in 1968, easily recognised by a dummy radiator as a grille

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2 years 5 months ago #227839 by mammoth
Replied by mammoth on topic Old Atkinson Identification
You can get a reasonable accuracy of build date by the codes that are etched into the glass and also some of the electric gear was often date coded. If it doesn't have a compliance plate it would be pre- 1972(??Put the glass codes up here and we can have a go of deciphering it.
Some piccys would also help

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