To Rivet, or not to Rivet

Thanks to all that have replied..
I am going to bolt it, I have a GOOD supplier up here.

GM Diesel, you have not see the size on my esky the truck might just handle it

JBlair, Riveting is not that bad, it just when you are in a boiler every thing is 100% louder, hotter and you have to squeeze into spots that are hard to get out of, like dropping a hot rivet

But again, THANKS TO ALL

Grade 5 bolts would be better than those Rivets. Next time you want to get rivets out, get a "Cold Set", which looks like an FB Cold Chisel with a bit of 10mm round bar wraped around it as a handle, and about a 12 pound sledge hammer, don't go too big with the sledgy, because they get heavy if your actually using them repititatvly. Get someone to stand inside the chassis to hold the cold set, so you don't hit them if you miss, and get them to hold the cold set so you are going parralell with the chassis. Don;t swing down, if you miss you will hit yourself, and the truck spring will absorb some of the shock. 3 good hits, even on european rivits, and the top is in orbit. But the best bit, it stretchs the rivit in the hole a littile bit, and you can then smack out whats left with a drift. When you cut the head off with an oxy or grinder, they can be quite trouble some to remove.

My 2 cents worth of dribble
Tax free of couse (can give change)

Kenworth chassis holes R a bout 1/32" biggr than the bolt
they make it easy to assemble n I thort it allows for chassis twist sorta a bit of give n take
Coz I'd imagine if U make it too rigid U'd B also getiing cracks in chassis from make n too rigid
if they B too rigid u might not B able to do this



(Clik Here) Why not kill sum time n watch a video on how they get the power to the ground

Cya
[ch9787]

That reminds me of the crossmember that picked up the front engine mounts on a 3070. When 3070's are used as tippers or similar where the chassis get twisted fairly regularly, they used the break that crossmember, but if you took the rivets out and replaced them with bolts, it didn't give ant trouble. Rivets expand in the hole when they are squashed and make it very rigid.

I can't claim to be an engineer but like a lot of forum members have been tinkering with metal and picking wiser brains along the way, although my first job was training to be a metallurgist in a foundry making both high tech and ancient products. The rivets struck a chord because as a teenager doing voluntry work on a steam railway I got suckered into reaming by hand the holes for bolting the frames. Previous generations were obviously tougher to get this sort of work done. On One Tracks prompt I now recollect that the bolts were indeed precision turned.
What i should have been pratling on about is that for comparison Albion always took pride that they made a quality truck and that the fully bolted frame was evidence of the quality. I have been stripping down a 1926 Albion and although it has been on the salty coast and there is a bit of rust on the frames the bolts have come undone real easy and the unexposed part of the bolt is as bright as the day it was assembled. They have a turned finish and fit just nice in the holes, neither tight nor loose. Spring washers would have let in moisture and rusted them out.

G'day, the purists won't like this but metric bolts in imperial holes give you a nice snug hammer fit.
Cheers.

Only one reason they mostly used rivets is obvious in that they are much cheaper than bolts when you talk thousands of them and they got big tool jigger to put em in fast,Dodge went to bolts on the later D5N series trucks spring mounts and them holes snug but not reamed

Hallo folks, newbie here, nice to meet you. Sorry to necro-post like this but have been coming back to this thread over the last couple of weeks and wanted to add some further questions, hope that's OK!

I'm rebuiding a smallish 20s American truck and need to relocate the shackles and hangers at both ends of the rear springs (both ends as the axle is located by swingarm). I also need to relocate a couple of crossmembers. This thread convinced me to tackle the job myself since while hot riveting is beyond me, I can do up a nut and bolt. So thanks all for the great info.

First question was for M1120, I'm not a purist so would an M12 bolt fit a 7/16 hole at 11.112mm? A bit small? What if I pop it in the freezer first?

Combined depth of the spring hangers and chassis rail is about 19.5mm while depth for rails and crossmembers is 13mm so I assume I will need bolts with shanks to suit each job.

I have been trying to find shank lengths on various retailer sites but little or no joy. Sorry for the painfully newb question here but what am I missing? Is one expected to just know how long the shanks are? Is it dependant on diameter or overall length?

Also, can anyone suggest a good bolt seller, ideally in Perth?

Cheers and TIA for any advice!
Martyn

Martyn

Firstly Welcome to the forum and what early 20's American truck are you doing up.

Bolt drill size, you will never fit a 12mm bolt in a 7/16" drilled hole as a 12mm bolt is .472" & 7/16" is .437" that is .034" interference (way to much).
I would drill it firstly with the 7/16" drill and then with a 15/32" drill (.468") if you find that this is still to tight a fit you will need to step up to a number drill.
The shank on the bolts may not be exactly 12mm so if you want to it spot on you will need to measure the shank diameter first to get the correct diameter for the second drill.

If i am chasing bolts that are hard to get or special ones i find Blackwoods normally have them which i know there is one in Perth.

Trevor

Thanks very much, Trevor. It's a '24 LaFrance. Um, at the risk of making myself an instant pariah, I'm not doing a faithful restoration. I'm reducing the wheelbase slightly, lowering the suspension by a few inches (originally sprung with 16 leaves at the rear) and putting a more "sporty" period style timber body on it.

It's a bitzer that was heavily modded by the factory itself during the Thirties, so my guilt isn't overwhelming, but better to be honest now than outed later. I'm not a rodder so the drivetrain is staying 100% original, or at least as original as the factory left it. Erm!! I hope this won't make me unwelcome but I'll understand if it does.

Yeah, I pretty much figured that would be too tight a fit; I'm curious what metric/imperial combos do work but don't really plan to go that way.

The rivets I've been taking out are about 13/32 with a fair bit of variation in the hole size/shape, so I thought 7/16 would be the bolt size to go up to. What drill bit do you reckon? A 27/64 would give even more interference. Just go with a size drill?

Yeah, there's a local Blackwoods. Thanks for the recommendation!