Updated 28th July.

If you are unable to login, you probably need to read this change to your username & profile.

 

Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC:

585 header 09 Nov 2020 06:32 #216160

  • Mrsmackpaul
  • Mrsmackpaul's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 5661
  • Thank you received: 2432
Well long story short

The oats went passed hay while we were standing watching so we decided to strip the oats for seed

So the old Massy Ferguson 585 header was decided to be the said tool for the job

Has a 4 pot Perkins, looks to my eyes like a 6354 only shorter

So been Perkins Im feeling confident it will fire right up

Turns out it has been over 10 years since it has seen action and it has other ideas

Well we have fuel getting to the injector pump but not coming out the other side


So we pop the top off the pump and find the metering valve stuck
No problem, chuck it all back together, still no go
So we lift the lid and look again to make sure the hook is lined with the stopper pin, it all looks good but no luck at all

So we pull the head to make sure the transfer pump is ok and the filter, springs and little piston doohickie are all fine

They all look good so we put it all back together and try again and discover theres no fuel getting to the injectors at all

So we pull the injector pump off the headet and open it and delve deeper into the unknown than I have ever ventured before

We pull it completely apart on the bench and make sure its clean and the bill hook is back in the correct position under the lid as none of this can be seen when its on the header

We reassemble this all and it's still not pumping

Time for a cuppa and a quick Google and I find the picture shown

I reckon I know what the problem is, I reckon the pump plungers number 9 are gumbed up and stuck

So apart with it all again , we take a few photos so we can return all the parts exactly as they came out

We found both plungers stuck and soon freed them up taking extra care not to scratch anything or even leave a mark

Put it all back together and tested it on the bench and found it now pumped and when we pulled the stop lever it stopped pumping and started again when released

So put it all back on the header, primed it up and soon had diesel coming out the injector lines

And by my untrained eye we had heaps of fuel

So nip the injectors up and nothing, no smoke, nothing at all

So maybe the injectors are gumbed up as well, so we pull them and find they are all fine and their plungers are free as
So we reinstall the injectors upside down and there is no spray, no leak, no dribble nothing at all

So we have heaps of fuel getting to them and just not enough pressure

Does anyone have any ideas ?

Paul
Your better to die trying than live on your knees begging
Attachments:

Please Log in to join the conversation.

585 header 09 Nov 2020 07:35 #216161

  • JOHN.K.
  • JOHN.K.'s Avatar
  • Offline
  • Posts: 2711
  • Thank you received: 1096
Could only be air in the system.....sometimes the DPA pumps take a lot of bleeding to get all the air out if theyve been apart....My old Hyster fork is the worst Ive ever had,and I got pretty good at starting it....Sometimes a difficult one ,you can just nip up the nuts so there is a small leak thwt allows the air to get out,but some fuel goes to the nozzle.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

585 header 09 Nov 2020 10:58 #216169

  • wouldyou
  • wouldyou's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Posts: 926
  • Thank you received: 137
Hello Paul,
Hope you get the pump working.
Once you have bled the filter and pump at both bleeders open the lines at the injectors getting fuel up to that point.
Motor is 4/236. Four cylinders of a 354.
David.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

585 header 09 Nov 2020 11:12 #216170

  • hayseed
  • hayseed's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Posts: 4770
  • Thank you received: 1310

Mrsmackpaul wrote:
So maybe the injectors are gumbed up as well, so we pull them and find they are all fine and their plungers are free as
So we reinstall the injectors upside down and there is no spray, no leak, no dribble nothing at all

So we have heaps of fuel getting to them and just not enough pressure

Does anyone have any ideas ?

Paul


I assume you checked the Nozzle holes were clear & not Blocked... Might have to find one of these paul..

www.ebay.com.au/itm/Diesel-Injector-Test...386202.c100677.m4598
"Be who you are and say what you feel...
Because those that matter...
don't mind...
And those that mind....
don't matter." -

Please Log in to join the conversation.

585 header 09 Nov 2020 11:38 #216171

  • Mrsmackpaul
  • Mrsmackpaul's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 5661
  • Thank you received: 2432

wouldyou wrote: Hello Paul,
Hope you get the pump working.
Once you have bled the filter and pump at both bleeders open the lines at the injectors getting fuel up to that point.
Motor is 4/236. Four cylinders of a 354.
David.


Have opened the injector lines at the injectors and it pumps fuel fine

Thanks for the info on the motor, I now know what it is, which I had no idea until you told me

Paul
Your better to die trying than live on your knees begging

Please Log in to join the conversation.

585 header 09 Nov 2020 12:02 #216173

  • Mrsmackpaul
  • Mrsmackpaul's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 5661
  • Thank you received: 2432
John I dont think it's air in the system as it has heaps of fuel with no air coming out the injectors, as always I could be wrong

Seed I doubt t he injectors are blocked as I have pulled them out and apart and blown thru them to make sure they are clear
I would of thought it was highly unlikely all 4 were blocked but checked anyway

I have a theory I will explore

Maybe with having it apart it is leaking out the shaft seal into the motor and this is preventing it making enough pressure
Or maybe the diaphragm lift pump is low on pressure and then the injector pump been ever so slightly worn is already starting from a lower pressure cant build the pressure required, this is all a guessing game and I dont know

So I have ordered a pop tester to check the injectors work as the should

I feel I need to put a pressure guage on a injector line and see the actual pressure it makes, after googling a bit I have read about 80 psi on the injector lines, does this sound right ?

Also ordered some new vanes and ring for the transfer pump and now that I know what model of Perkins it is I'll order a lift pump
Hopefully will have a answer some time and these oats will make it in the bin eventually as to harvest with a pair of tweasers isnt exciting me at all

Paul
Your better to die trying than live on your knees begging

Please Log in to join the conversation.

585 header 09 Nov 2020 12:09 #216175

  • Swishy
  • Swishy's Avatar
  • Away
  • If U don't like my Driving .... well then get off the footpath ...... LOL
  • Posts: 15350
  • Thank you received: 2530
Start it on Laffin Gas
(Start U Barsted , Aerostart)
not tooo much now
as it iz adictive
LOL
cya
OF ALL THE THINGS EYE MISS ................. EYE MISS MY MIND THE MOST

There's more WORTH in KENWORTH

Please Log in to join the conversation.

585 header 09 Nov 2020 12:39 #216177

  • Mrsmackpaul
  • Mrsmackpaul's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 5661
  • Thank you received: 2432
Tried that pretty early in the piece Swishman and could tell right away it wasnt getting any diesel

Thats when we started looking a lot harder

Paul
Your better to die trying than live on your knees begging

Please Log in to join the conversation.

585 header 09 Nov 2020 12:50 #216178

  • 180wannabe
  • 180wannabe's Avatar
  • Away
  • Posts: 531
  • Thank you received: 240
Hi Paul,

I think i understand you have diesel coming out the injector pipes at the injectors, so you tightened the lines, then when you tried to start it, got nothing, no smoke etc etc.

From my experience, and i don't know too much, but every Perkins i have dealt with i have had to leave 2 injector lines loose (at the injector), then start cranking. Once it fires and starts to run i tighten them up and it is all good from then on, but without leaving 2 loose you can crank and crank and crank and never ever get anywhere.

Good luck! Brett.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

585 header 09 Nov 2020 14:49 #216179

  • Mrsmackpaul
  • Mrsmackpaul's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 5661
  • Thank you received: 2432
we tried all 4 loose and as diesel appeard just slowly tightend them up while still cranking, nothing happened
Tried the same scenario with injector out but on the head, nothing no squirt, no dribble, nothing

Makes me think it isnt building enough pressure to overcome the spring loaded pressure in injector
Your better to die trying than live on your knees begging
The following user(s) said Thank You: 180wannabe, cobbadog

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.312 seconds

Historic Commercial Vehicles Club of Australia Inc.  Post: P.O. Box 2020 Bayswater Vic. 3153    Clubrooms: Unit 8 / 4  Macquarie Place Boronia    Club Rooms:  03) 9738 1558