Can we have a Discussion About the forum .

Bruce

With not having access to the server do you have any idea when the next updates will take place and how many updates before we get to the latest version.

Trevor

Good question Trevor,

The honest answer is no. We couldn't upgrade on the old server as we didn't have the space and I have been told we have 4 times the space on the new one.

As to the number of updates if we need to go through everything release and patch you need to remember there are often a couple of patches a month. However if we are not opening up the forum for use we may not need all the patches.

How long it will take will depend upon what we find out when we test the upgrades and what options we have. Other factors to consider are:

• we don't want to lose any information
• We need to minimize downtime (or the time the forum is unavailable)
• This work has to be carried out in people's "spare time" as people have work, family, study and other commitments
• we need to test the upgrade process to ensure we select the correct options and that it actually works (I have worked at banks where their system upgrades failed regularly) and get some idea of timings on our hardware setup.

I know that copies of the releases had been stored to make sure they were available when we needed them and when we moved servers a second copy was made to allow the testing to take place.

I hope this helps explain the situation clearly. Once we can do some testing I can get some answers. I for one don't want to have to retype every post in the system!

Bruce

Thanks for the technical reply now can we have the plain English one. Lol

Once you regain access to the server will it be 3 months 6 months 12 months.

The big question is how much more user friendly will it be once completed.

Trevor

This has cropped up before, across my multiple hobbies. It is surprising how many variations of php software exist. I find HCVC the easiest one to use for viewing and searching. The various sections are easy to follow. A different heavy-traffic one is laid out badly, with too many headings, and no easy alerts: it is hard to know where to post. Most do not accept photos: the amount of storage would be horrific. One which does store photos is now charging (a voluntary fee), but people have fled in droves. It has so little traffic that people don't bother going there: an ever-downward spiral.

As a magazine editor, I don't expect every item to appeal to every reader, but every item should appeal to somebody, and every reader should find something which appeals to them. Much the same here: I don't go to every section. In some of the technical ones, I can't post anything; I lurk and learn a lot from those who do post. My annoyance is that I can't edit a post after 24 h, and in some threads I can't even delete a wrong or useless post which I made.
Across all of my groups and group styles (php forum, yahoo, facebook and way back usenet), the wars start when someone puts up a post 'that post should never have appeared'; in many the complainer is so outraged that he repeats the whole post. In facebook, it simply brings the post to the top again (usually complaining about spam).
Last year yahoo was redesigned: it is a complete disaster, and people have left it in droves.
Flickr redesigned, and is much harder to use, but could well be the best for placing photos here, but it is slow work, and only one by one (not batches). There are lots of threads hating the new look. It is free, and has lots of capacity.

My worry is that any new-look HCVC forum would be going backwards, not forwards. Is the work worth the effort?

Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

Roderick, I agree with your main points, very well said-

I don't expect every item to appeal to every reader, but every item should appeal to somebody, and every reader should find something which appeals to them.

Most do not accept photos: the amount of storage would be horrific.

My annoyance is that I can't edit a post after 24 h, and in some threads I can't even delete a wrong or useless post which I made.


Is the work (changing the forum) worth the effort?

Sure it takes a little bit of effort to post a picture, but in reality you can upload quite a few pictures and post them in just a few minutes even using Photobucket, and photo's take up a lot of storage, especially if they are not resized before putting on the forum.

OK a couple of replies,

Trevor - I wanted this done before Christmas 2014 but it wasn't to be. My guesstimate is 6 to 12 months depending on when we get the access, when people are available to do it, any problems we strike along the way etc so don't hold me to it as it is not a promise.

Its like asking a harvesting or slashing company 'what is the season going to be like in 2019?'. You can have a guess based on your experience but at this stage that is all it is.

Roderick, the time limit on editing is common on other forums etc. Even Facebook will only let you delete comments after a certain time (although the original poster can edit the original post). If you need a wrong or useless post deleted then let a member of the administration/moderation team know. I also like the way you made the other points

Now , don't get me wrong ,I am very thankful for this forum and the HCV Club that makes it available .
OK , Seems the Server is once again Struggling to cope .
Probably 6 months back there was a change to a different server , and about the same time there was an attempt to upgrade the forum .After a couple of days offline The upgrade was not successful. From what I can see , this version of the forum set up is over 6 years old ,So many new ones have been released .
The reason for this thread . I have watched the Build up to the Geelong Show. Here we are 4 days after the event and not one single photo been posted .
Why ????
Guys that went been too busy to post.
Is it because of the forum setup with having to use a photo hosting site making it just that bit harder .
I know on Adams Vintage trucks Australia Facebook Group .Photos were getting posted there from saturday morning .By Sunday night there were Albums with over 300 photos in them .
So how many times do you read here people struggling to post photos .
To join the forum now, Moderators / Club officials now have to check each application and manually Approve new Members .
These guys are Unpaid volunteers ,So they now have extra workload because the forum approval systems is not good enough .
So after wading though all that ,what do you all think ?Would an upgraded style of forum be a good thing ?
We all know something like this comes with a price tag Would members be prepared to support the upgrade and future running costs ?
Would you pay 50 cents a week = 25 bucks a year for a forum that is a big improvement on what we have now .Wot Sez you ,as Swishy would say ?

Ianoz

I have just re read your opening post.

Just reading the last few reply's the site hasn't got any problems and everything is going along real smooth so not sure are we reading the situation wrong.

Trevor

Hi,

I take it that not every HCVC Member is a huge fan of the Forum.

Nor will money alone fix the Forum Server, it's Software, add any more minutes to the day of the Moderators and Administrators or make their (self appointed) job any quicker or easier.

But, just free for nothing, speaking off the top of my head;

While leaving the On-line Forum EXACTLY as it is for the moment; that is "Guest" (readers) and "Members" (contributors),

Create a third level of Forum presence.

Namely, that of "Subscriber".


"What would be the benefit of that to anyone?" I hear you ask.

Well, a Subscription Member, for say $25 per annum (a number mentioned previously), would be able to add "HCVC Subscription Member" to their signature line (as some "HCVC Members" currently do), which would indicate a degree of financial support to the Forum and give the contributor a little bit of extra weight and prestige to their post. A small carrot.

It would also get them a "free" subscription to the HCVC Newsletter (only) - another carrot.


What benefit would that be to full paid up, money where their mouth is, time spent, feet on the ground members of HCVC the Club?

1) A focused distribution of the newsletter, and from that (and its secondary distribution);

2) A better understanding of the clubs activities, interests, goals and aims, which,

3) Just maybe perhaps might generate a few new full club membership applications.
and
4) Soften the Clubs out of pocket expense of supporting the Online Forum.

And that's a few carrots coming back the other way.


Blah blah blah, a half formed idea of a "From the Forum" section in the newsletter and a corresponding (locked) "From the Membership" section on Forum.
It's communication, HCVC Members that don't "get" the online concept and online folk that aren't into clubs and meetings and all that other stuff (including the tyranny of time and distance) but would like to support some of the aims and aspirations of The Club in some less hands on way.

I know that talk is cheap, and doing something isn't often cheap or easy and usually involves someone else's time and often money to implement but. . .

just saying,
A small discussion about the forum?

-b

The reason for this thread . I have watched the Build up to the Geelong Show. Here we are 4 days after the event and not one single photo been posted .
Why ????

Ianoz.......
The direct answer to your question on behalf of a few of the very real contributors to this Forum and the
Historic Vehicle Movement ..
Too much has been 'left' to too few.
For years, the same people have 'put in', week after week, event after event and maybe? just maybe, they are just not as willing as they were, to continue providing that amount of effort?

It has little, if anything to do with the degree of difficulty of posting the photos...
People have managed quite well in the past..
I believe, if a person has the genuine want to share a picture, they would find someone, somewhere, to assist them.
There has never been ANY shortage of offers for help or assistance that I have seen.

The only downfall of 'remote' photo hosting is the picture links can be lost, which we have seen in the past.

There are many people that are not, and probably will never be a 'Member' of this Forum.
They don't want to be a 'Member' and they don't need to be a 'Member' to get their daily 'Read Only' dose of the Forum.

Plenty of them are quick with some feedback in relation to the forum though, whether to criticise or praise....
Either way....there are possibly or probably, more 'Lookers' than 'Contributors'.

If a 'Guest' can see everything a 'Member' posts and if they have no need or intention to post, why would they join?

The Forum HAS NOT CHANGED.
With the exception of a few additional Sections to read.

The level of contribution may have changed, but i doubt it has anything to do with the 'Server' or the 'Software'.

Maybe Ianoz, people just plain don't want to contribute as heavily as they may have done in previous times?
Its their choice, for whatever their reasons.

Paid Membership, at any level, between the Forum and the HCVC 'club' itself, isn't going to guarantee Forum contribution.

Why would a person pay to become a Member of any Club or Forum and make regular contributions, when the 'gate' is left open for many to reap the benefit for free?

I have NOT seen in this topic, where the HCVC has indicated costs are excessive or the Forum is revenue negative or things haven't been altered or upgraded for financial reasons..

Paid subscriptions, paid advertising whatever..
IF, that's what is required to keep the Forum operating, sure why not..
But that still won't 'make' people contribute or post pictures.

Ianoz, from what I see here....

There are too many people sitting in the wheelbarrow...
The blokes that have been pushing it all this time are wearing out...
There are plenty of 'Members' and 'onlookers', with more than enough ability to share the load....
But, for whatever the reason, they have chosen not to.

This Forum provides a place for people to visit each day,
it contains most of everything that is required to get someone through an 'Historic Vehicle' adventure of some kind..
The available knowledge is here is incredible, the daily traffic is phenomenal and, its all for free..

Its all been said before...
What about a few others stepping up to the plate?
Share a bit of the load, make a contribution where you can..

Isn't it about Give AND Take... ?

...i think it's fair that people tire from always being the ones that post up pics...even though the whole forum loves a look at 'em...

...for me, i got tired of attending truck shows after a heck of a lot of 'em (i'm looking at a certificate of appreciation for attending "The Geelong Truck Show and Country Music Day" dated 14th March 1999)....and went to my first truck show (in the cabover Petertbilt) to Penshurst in 1992.....

...we're all entitled to a bit of forum/truck show burn-out i s'pose....but it still doesn't mean that you don't care.... i have to admit the pressure of NOT doing what people expect you to do can be somewhat irritating....

...all up the forum is still a great pastime and will always be an amazing repository for anything commercial vehicle related... i guess we should just not expect too much from each other and try not to sweat the small stuff ....we do as we wish...if we can....cheers fellas