Electric vehicles and alternate fuel sources

lantana jack wrote:

IHScout wrote: I think we could argue for an eternity about who's right or wrong, but I suspect what's going to happen is going to happen regardless of what anyone thinks. I don't have a crystal ball so I'm not placing bets on which version of the future we will see. I remember a conversation I had with my son when he was getting all excited about the imminent release of the first iPhon. I thought it looked pretty chunky compared to my neat little Motorola flip phone and quizzed him about why anyone would buy an iPhone. "Because you can get the internet on your phone Dad". "Yeah, but who want to access the internet on a tiny phone screen?" Well as it turns out, the whole world wants to access the internet on their phone (including me), but most of us didn't know that until the iPhone arrived on the scene. So maybe in the future we'll have petrol cars, or electric cars or be flying around in hydrogen powered self controlled drones. Most of will just have to wait and see what that'll be.

No ones debating the merits of electric cars as such. Electric cars are a well proven technology... in fact, electric cars are an old proven technology having been around for over one hundred years...

The discussion lays with the mandating of electric cars as the vehicle of government designated choice. Also, the discussion as per thread starter post, is about just how electric cars will be powered - it seems instead of using cheap coal or incredibly sensible nuclear power the government is intending to power electric cars with un-economic solar and wind power.

As has been seen so far in this thread the evidence provided by the proponents of the solar/wind power ‘fueling’ of electric cars has been easily debunked. In fact, so easily debunked they are now trying to run away and shut down the discussion.

.....The thread ‘narrative’ has not run to expectations...





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I will try and answer yuour questions
I will not be drawn into slanging match or argument at all
Take my answers for what they, you dont have to agree or disagree with me

No one is mandating electric cars
There is no need, we will buy them our selves as the market dictates

Watch the video invested energy shared and it explains why
By the way that fella in the video isnt a greenie tree hugger
He gets paid huge money to tell companies were market trends are going to go and why
It isnt crystal ball stuff but based on facts and data and market trends and changes so well worth a look with a open mind

The facts about costs and safety of nuclear or coal compared to solar wind or hydro are well documented and solar is for Australia by far the cheapest cleanest and safest we have at this stage

There is overwhelming factual evidence to back this up

As to what goes into solar panels, all sorts of nasties that could easily damage the environment and kill us
At a guess nothing worse or better than is used in coal fired power stations or nuclear powerstations for that matter

I do wonder about people drinking rain water off roofs with solar panels and the potential for nasties to leach into the water and damage our health

Perhaps someone older and wiser than me can answer that

But watch that video with a open mind and you will see there is no need to ban petrol cars or any other such thing, our own selfish greed will make us switch as electric cars are so cheap to own run and shortly in the near future to purchase

Just my thoughts, take them with a grain of salt

Paul

I agree with you Paul, it's not about Government subsidies or politics, at the end of the day it's about what consumers are willing to pay for. A great example is what is happening in the garden tools area. I had a landscaper here a couple of weeks ag o with his team of four men to do some tree loping and hedge pruning. They used between them, hedge trimmers, leaf blowers, edge trimmers and chainsaws. Not one was petrol powered. They were all battery powered. The landscapers is not an environmentalist greeny, he just reckons the battery powered are more reliable, better to work with and cost effective.

No problem there Brocky ,there is a zillion sensors to go towards the $1000 a month subscription Tesla now demands from car owners to keep them "up to date".......The most important Tesla sensor is the one does a credit check on the owner.

FIRST ELECTRIC CAR: 1834
The current push to electrify the world’s motoring fleet may seem like a new and daring initiative but electric vehicle technology predates the first internal combustion engine by 52-years. Thomas Davenport designed and built his own electric motor and battery pack and released his electric car to the world in 1834.

The battery technology at the time was not quite up to the task and sadly it never caught on.

Lang is right. As a moderator here I encourage discussion but don't insist people agree.

I also recognise that different people need different vehicles and not all of them are available with electric power. There are also some instances where electric power need some technology advances to work (eg excavators, tractors etc)
However I have found that most people that own a certain brand (worshiping at the church of Elon Musk) seem to want everyone to drive their brand of vehicle. It's worse than the old Holden/Ford rivalry and you would have more chance of Swishy buying a Volvo then have them understand there are needs for vehicles Tesla doesn't make.

I am not against electric power, I have a push bike (trike actually) with a battery and electric motor, my lawn mower is battery electric as is the whipper snipper and blower vac. Most of their power comes from our solar panels (as we charge them during the day).

However on a Facebook car group which is meant to cater for any age and style of vehicle I was called a polluting #$^%$%^ by the administrator as I purchased a diesel Iload van to carry my trike and wife's mobility scooter when we go away. It means we don't have to drive anywhere and can get to shops etc a couple of km from where we are staying without taking a car/van. I have known this person outside facebook for years and he has seen the medical issues Helen and I have. Yet according to him we shouldn't be taking the trike and scooter but walking. (We both wish we could!). Karma got him in the end - he missed out on the volunteer role he badly wanted and has scarred his reputation.

I guess the warning is to treat people with respect as even if the moderators/administrators don't pull you up it could be you that looks the fool and shoots yourself in the foot

Mrsmackpaul wrote:

lantana jack wrote:

IHScout wrote: I think we could argue for an eternity about who's right or wrong, but I suspect what's going to happen is going to happen regardless of what anyone thinks. I don't have a crystal ball so I'm not placing bets on which version of the future we will see. I remember a conversation I had with my son when he was getting all excited about the imminent release of the first iPhon. I thought it looked pretty chunky compared to my neat little Motorola flip phone and quizzed him about why anyone would buy an iPhone. "Because you can get the internet on your phone Dad". "Yeah, but who want to access the internet on a tiny phone screen?" Well as it turns out, the whole world wants to access the internet on their phone (including me), but most of us didn't know that until the iPhone arrived on the scene. So maybe in the future we'll have petrol cars, or electric cars or be flying around in hydrogen powered self controlled drones. Most of will just have to wait and see what that'll be.

No ones debating the merits of electric cars as such. Electric cars are a well proven technology... in fact, electric cars are an old proven technology having been around for over one hundred years...

The discussion lays with the mandating of electric cars as the vehicle of government designated choice. Also, the discussion as per thread starter post, is about just how electric cars will be powered - it seems instead of using cheap coal or incredibly sensible nuclear power the government is intending to power electric cars with un-economic solar and wind power.

As has been seen so far in this thread the evidence provided by the proponents of the solar/wind power ‘fueling’ of electric cars has been easily debunked. In fact, so easily debunked they are now trying to run away and shut down the discussion.

.....The thread ‘narrative’ has not run to expectations...





.

I will try and answer yuour questions
I will not be drawn into slanging match or argument at all
Take my answers for what they, you dont have to agree or disagree with me

No one is mandating electric cars
There is no need, we will buy them our selves as the market dictates

Watch the video invested energy shared and it explains why
By the way that fella in the video isnt a greenie tree hugger
He gets paid huge money to tell companies were market trends are going to go and why
It isnt crystal ball stuff but based on facts and data and market trends and changes so well worth a look with a open mind

The facts about costs and safety of nuclear or coal compared to solar wind or hydro are well documented and solar is for Australia by far the cheapest cleanest and safest we have at this stage

There is overwhelming factual evidence to back this up

As to what goes into solar panels, all sorts of nasties that could easily damage the environment and kill us
At a guess nothing worse or better than is used in coal fired power stations or nuclear powerstations for that matter

I do wonder about people drinking rain water off roofs with solar panels and the potential for nasties to leach into the water and damage our health

Perhaps someone older and wiser than me can answer that

But watch that video with a open mind and you will see there is no need to ban petrol cars or any other such thing, our own selfish greed will make us switch as electric cars are so cheap to own run and shortly in the near future to purchase

Just my thoughts, take them with a grain of salt

Paul

“...He gets paid huge money to tell companies were market trends are going to go and why...”

Mrsmackpaul, no one is arguing that solar and wind are not profitable in certain aspects. Like any scam they are very profitable, to a select few...

“...These huge and lucrative renewable subsidizes are why Warren Buffet would like to partner with California to mandate changes in the western U.S. transmission network rules to allow greater access to other western states so unusable solar in Ca. could be forced upon other states so he could receive increased subsidizes for his production from his Ca. renewable projects...”

wattsupwiththat.com/2019/06/07/l-a-times...credibly-misleading/



Meanwhile, coal production continues to grow so as to supply all the new coal fired power stations being opened around the world...

“...Date: 02/05/20Russia Today
The world’s largest coal-producing country, Russia, plans to increase its output and exports over the next 15 years. Russia’s share of the global coal export market is projected to expand to 25 percent from the current 11 percent...”

www.thegwpf.com/as-green-west-retreats-r...orter-within-decade/


As to how ‘clean’ things are:

Still seeking further info regarding previous posts...

invested energy, I’m wondering, what are the ingredients that go into making solar panels ?

And, what’s a science denier..?




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Mrsmackpaul wrote: [quote="


Watch the video invested energy shared...

...He gets paid huge money to tell companies were market trends are going to go and why...

It isnt crystal ball stuff but based on facts and data and market trends and...

Mrsmackpaul, I took your advise and started to watch the video referenced via invested energy...

Got about 13 minutes into and... :lol: it were all to much. Did Tony Seba talk Dyson into getting into electric cars...

“...James Dyson is terminating his electric car project...”

www.theverge.com/2019/10/10/20908117/dys...ctric-car-ev-project


Seba talks about “technology adaption S curves” at about 9 minutes in. Well, the electric car were invented over 100 years ago. I wonder were Seba’s great grandfather around then spruiking just how great them electric cars were and yer should invest now..

As always, electric cars are great. It’s as Henry Ford discovered - how do yer power them cheaply...





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I believe the australian state governments are comitted to buying some 50 ,000 electric cars over the next few years,Queensland was planning on 4,000 next year....(previrus,of course)...and whether you like it or not,you will be part owner of electric cars ,and paying for them.......I also note the Queensland governments provision of free charging points lasted about 10 minutes after the minister announced it......there is now a fee of around 10x power usage price,and points are expected to be reserved for government electric cars.

Who remembers the PEAK OIL debate - that we were on a downward slope of oil extraction. Seems the money men made decisions that resulted in not just more oil but in real terms cheeper too. World politics and multi nationals decide what is going to happen, even if that is by unintended consequence of other decisions.
Most oil company big shareholders have smelt the breeze ind instructed their Boards to divest from 100%oil.

mammoth wrote: Who remembers the PEAK OIL debate - that we were on a downward slope of oil extraction. Seems the money men made decisions that resulted in not just more oil but in real terms cheeper too. World politics and multi nationals decide what is going to happen, even if that is by unintended consequence of other decisions.
Most oil company big shareholders have smelt the breeze ind instructed their Boards to divest from 100%oil.

The decline of Australia continues...

“...businesses in Australia “using the cover of coronavirus to cut and run from things that they don’t want to do anymore in this country”. Mr Murray said Australia is in a “precarious position as an island nation when it comes to petrol” and the recent decision by Caltex to ‘temporarily’ close its Brisbane refinery is a real “national security question”...”

www.news.com.au/national/caltex-closing-...00aa61073a2bbe426ec1



Meanwhile, where common sense is still to be found...

India is building new refinery’s and getting coal from Russia. Seems blocking Adani in Australia wont make any difference what-so-ever...

economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/en...cleshow/75608290.cms

New refineries in Vietnam...

e.vnexpress.net/news/business/industries...ty-2023-3842729.html


New refinery in Bangladesh...

thefinancialexpress.com.bd/trade/new-oil...extension-1584161602


New Chinese funded refinery in Mexico...

www.businesstimes.com.sg/energy-commodit...-refinery-ambassador


New refinery in Malaysia...

www.businesstimes.com.sg/energy-commodit...phur-ship-fuel-rules

Expanding refinery in Singapore...

www.businesstimes.com.sg/energy-commodit...-base-oil-production





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