Electric vehicles and alternate fuel sources

There's plenty of things those countries do that almost almost all of us would frown upon so perhaps common sense over there isnt common sense over here

One reason that coal fired stations make more sense in a lot of countries is that they dont have the room or climate Australia has

Things are rarely cut and dry so we always need to consider the full picture which is very hard for anyone (myself included) to do objectively

Paul

Heres the economics of oil refining in Australia.....labourers getting $90 an hour for supposed "confined space" tank the size of city hall ,hole cut in the side that a vehicle can drive in thru .....new BP refinery in Chennai ....labourers getting $2 a hour,for confined space ,or any other space.....Net result BP closes in Brisbane ,and sources refined product from India.

lantana jack wrote:

invested energy wrote: "There's a lot of coal left in Australia"

Good. It can stay here. In the ground where it belongs.

Coal kills miners... and it's the taxpayer, not the mining company, that picks up the health bill.

Any industry has its dangers. That’s why Australia has some of the toughest work place health and safety regs.

The WPHS regs have evolved through the years as hazardous conditions are identified and then suitable safety gear mandated for that particular issue.

invested energy, I’m wondering, what are the ingredients that go into making solar panels ?

O.K., judging by the lack of a reply it looks like invested energy has done some research and discovered that the manufacture of solar panels involves silica and coal...

Silica dust has serious health issues if yer are not properly protected from it. Although, the manufacture of most things in modern life require some form of personal protective gear so for coal to be specially singled out is yet another greeny furphy.


Bolt has a quick look-see at electric cars and solar panel manufacture:







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It's very interesting to see the debate continue unabated, cheers blokes.

I like this forum, provided it doesn't descend into name calling or a pile in, having discussions in public is a good way to test ideas and gives those without the knowledge or confidence to post a good way to make their own mind up.

It often spurs me to learn more myself, looking into things that I wouldn't otherwise.

Of course some things need no introduction, like Bolt, supporter of pedophiles, convicted racist, promoter of misinformation... I wouldn't personally recommend him as a measured, respected, credible source but I would note the sources are often as credible as the argument people use.

Like "whataboutism"

When you ignore the point that coal kills miners, right here, right now in first world fully OH&S compliant Australia. Just this week we've sadly had an underground coal mine explosion that's badly burnt 5 blokes.

Instead you say whatabout! silica! which is the base for glass, concrete, cement and any other number of products we use for all manner of things. An ingredient there is no substitute for.

The thing is that silica isn't just dug up to be burnt, releasing more toxic pollution & leaving more toxic ash behind.

Whatabout! mah subsidies!

Subsidies are also euphemistically called externalities... the problems created by profitable coal are paid for by broader society. If coal had to pay for the damage it did, it'd be dead last century.

www.sbs.com.au/news/coal-power-comes-with-2-6b-health-bill

Here's another taxpayer subsidy, because it's easy to sell an old mine for $1 to a penny dreadful company who then "goes broke"

"Mine closure, complete rehabilitation and relinquishment of the former mine site is almost unknown in Australia. Known examples are the New Wallsend coal mine in NSW and a sand quarry near Melbourne. Tasmanian data lists one in the last ten years and a further five over the last thirty years, although the rehabilitation standard of the earlier sites is unclear. There are no examples of major, modern open cut mines completing rehabilitation to the point where the site can be relinquished."

www.tai.org.au/content/dark-side-boom

Subsidies... There's that dirty commo word again.

www.afr.com/business/energy/electricity/...tain-20180910-h1572c

reneweconomy.com.au/australias-first-uns...uth-australia-36450/

reneweconomy.com.au/unsubsidised-wind-an...f-bulk-energy-96453/

reneweconomy.com.au/neoen-unveils-massiv...uth-australia-71699/

I dunno bugger all about bugger all
But silica is bad, no two ways about it

BUT, AND YES THATS A BIG BUT
Silica is only dangerous when the particals are bellow a certain size
And Im thinking that once it is made into the glass of the solar panel it will be as dangerous as your common house window

Paul

Phew! Having read all that lot, AND the responses thereafter, I can only break into that well known Australian jingle:


And since we currently have no football, less Australian meat-pies, the kangaroos are dying out and no Holden cars anymore,where does that leave us . . . ?

The answer is obvious ,stop eating the kangaroos in meat pies ,and start riding them to make up for the lack of Holden cars.

.
Everybody can come up with all the mumbo jumbo that they can dig up ..........
But the simple fact is..........most of our gas goes overseas and we have to buy it back.........
So if coal and nuclear power is relegated to the back burner, then, our manufacturing
sector will go with it ................end of story.................
....................Billy...................

BillyP wrote: .
Everybody can come up with all the mumbo jumbo that they can dig up ..........
But the simple fact is..........most of our gas goes overseas and we have to buy it back.........
So if coal and nuclear power is relegated to the back burner, then, our manufacturing
sector will go with it ................end of story.................
....................Billy...................

Yep.

Though it’s not all bad. We still make toilet paper in Australia.




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Bloody amazing...

How apparently all our manufacturing will be gone, mining gone, industry gone...

It makes me wonder how anyone can be so blinkered, so lacking in vision, that they can't see the future when even the conservative, bean counting, hard nosed economic industrialists are making obvious progress.

Can't be done, won't happen, pointless, idiotic, unreliable, expensive they carp and wail...

Yet here they are actually growing, planning, getting on with it, despite or in fact precisely because our gas is expensive because it's being exported to the highest overseas bidder... (and earning duck all royalties because of the "superior" LNP economic management)

This is the same LNP that killed off the car industry and with it the chance of domestic electric cars... like the e-commodore developed by Holden & the CSIRO that was built BEFORE the 2000 Olympics.

FYI California by itself is the world's 16th largest economy and Tesla is their largest manufacturer.

www.australianmining.com.au/features/ren...alian-mining-sector/

www.smh.com.au/business/companies/hello-...20191018-p531xf.html

www.miningpeople.com.au/news/how-the-min...is-using-solar-power

thewest.com.au/news/wa/degrussa-solar-po...erating-ng-ya-299400

theleadsouthaustralia.com.au/industries/...-in-south-australia/