Electric vehicles and alternate fuel sources

I've found it interesting to have discussions like this in different circles. To paraphrase a T Ford forum associate on a similarly lively thread :

"Well we're not just setting on a 5 gallon drum and talking about nothing..."

Of course it's an American forum, so sadly the polarisation of the US under the moron in chief has seen them ban anything slightly political. Even discussions of other cars have to be labelled "off topic"

At least Australians can manage a more civilised discussion.

I'm curious though, how many of you blokes watched the video?

4 ½ minutes? More?



Cheers

Jebus he of you blokes really are a wind up... next it'll be vaccines cause daylight saving

Key results:

Majority (68%) of respondents think the ABC is more important in an age of social media and fake news, including 64% of LNP and 61% of One Nation voters;
The results show 57% of respondents do not trust social media, while just 12% said they do trust social media;
Over three times more voters trust the ABC (52%) than trust commercial media (14%);
Voters across all parties (LNP, ALP, Greens and One Nation) trust the ABC more than commercial news sources.
www.tai.org.au/content/abc-still-austral...-trusted-news-source

So yeah, when the ABC reports on Queensland Government hearings that show coal miners are being maimed and dying from black lung... Wether you like it or not that is the abject truth.

When the SA government tried to blame smoking for the huge rates of asthma in children & lung cancer in adults at Pt Augusta, the ABC reports that its actually air pollution from burning coal. That is the abject truth.

As for the gays, the greenies, the feminists... well one in every 9 of your fellow Australians vote for the greens, which is double the number garnered by the Nationals.

Why aren't people sneering about the Nats having seats in cabinet and selling out farmers in favour of miners? These are the people who oversaw the deregulation of dairy and the subsequent sell off by Mum's & Dad's to large multinational farmers & processors.

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty to be sceptical about... A federal ICAC, publicly funded elections and $1000 maximum donations would be a great f#@ken start...

However I think you'll find that all the links are between the encumbant fossil fuel industries, the bankers, the corporates, the money interests... and misinformation.

Coal miners are spending big on bullish!t. The same way big tobacco bought doctors... to sow doubt and pedal junk when they know full well what's going on and have for 40 years.

If you're a climate sceptic then you're a useful idiot for those who like to fleece you sellng their fossil fuelled energy.

I mean who are you going to believe?

Team a) The entire body of the world's scientific knowledge... publicly funded & accountable organisations like NASA, the CSIRO, NOAA, the Royal Society, even the Pentagon acknowledges climate change is a risk to what they do.

Team b) the IPA, GWPF, Heartland Institute & various other think tanks & atroturfers that -refuse- to say who funds them...

Except when they go bankrupt and the rules mean they have to disclose where the money has been going...

"The company gave $300,000 to Government Accountability & Oversight, a group focused on countering organizations that oppose Trump administration environmental rollbacks."

www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/climate/murra...ate-denial-coal.html

Needless to say they're also going to abandon pension entitlements & mine rehabilitation in the process of "going broke"

www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/...e-us-power-dwindles/

www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/07...WyJvHuMo5xfByJijnzRE

theintercept.com/2019/05/16/coal-industr...suaXumAgVpnBVNIlJth8

How does this all affect hydrogen as a transport or transportable fuel?

The LNP loves coal (donors) just a bit more than Labor does. They're looking to save that source of funding and coal to hydrogen is one way of staving off the inevitable... and juicing the punters, hooked on the existing network, for a few more dollars before everyone realises that all electric houses are cheaper.

reneweconomy.com.au/beware-fossil-gas-su...ydrogen-gifts-73041/

invested energy wrote: Jebus he of you blokes really are a wind up... next it'll be vaccines cause daylight saving

Key results:

Majority (68%) of respondents think the ABC is more important in an age of social media and fake news, including 64% of LNP and 61% of One Nation voters;
The results show 57% of respondents do not trust social media, while just 12% said they do trust social media;
Over three times more voters trust the ABC (52%) than trust commercial media (14%);
Voters across all parties (LNP, ALP, Greens and One Nation) trust the ABC more than commercial news sources.
www.tai.org.au/content/abc-still-austral...-trusted-news-source

.....

“...The Australia Institute conducted a national survey of 1,557 people between 27 March and 7 April 2018 online through Research Now with nationally representative samples by gender, age and state and territory.
Results are shown only for larger states...”


How do we know they got all genders..:huh:





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invested energy wrote: I've found it interesting to have discussions like this in different circles. To paraphrase a T Ford forum associate on a similarly lively thread :

"Well we're not just setting on a 5 gallon drum and talking about nothing..."

Of course it's an American forum, so sadly the polarisation of the US under the moron in chief has seen them ban anything slightly political. Even discussions of other cars have to be labelled "off topic"

At least Australians can manage a more civilised discussion.

I'm curious though, how many of you blokes watched the video?

4 ½ minutes? More?

Cheers

I have heard this fella talk before
Even if he is 10 years off he makes some very convincing points and the only thing that will stop this is if our technology doesn't quite make it

Coal fired power plants really are a thing of the past and will never ever compete with solar on a large scale

And for purely economic reasons things will change very quickly

Paul

The fuel cell is mechanically simpler than burning hydrogen in an internal-combustion engine, but the chemistry is the same: H2 in a tank combining with O2 to form H2O.
The hydrogen still has to be made somewhere. 95% is made by steam over coal, which has to produce CO2 as a byproduct. Electrolysing water works, but uses excessive quantities of electricity.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell_vehicle
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production


180223F-Melbourne'HeraldSun'-Hyundai-hydrogen.
180808W-'BrisbaneTimes-hydrogen.car
191129F-'WAToday'-France-Pau-hydrogen.bus

Roderick

Anyone know anything about these. This is a Brisbane bloke but someone from South Australia advertises regularly.

www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/brisbane-city/tr...ks-genset/1246512674

If you Google or Ebay "Hydrogen Generator" there are thousands to choose from. Somebody must be buying them and they must work (in some manner anyhow) for such a big offering and variety of design. Surely some of our vast forum membership either uses or knows someone who uses one of these for a report.


PS Just found this. Does not look good!!!

Toyota and the Saudi s are spending billions on hydrogen made from crude oil (understandably ),but so far the simplest way of using hydrogen is as ammonia.Ammonia can also be used directly in a fuel cell ...Ammonia fill in a few minutes ,without the problems of charging batteries from the street system....main downside would be the odour.

My guess would be bugger all
But and I'll make that a BIG BUT, dont discount solar, its quick to build compared to coal, dirt cheap to run and when its paired to pumped hydro or gravitictity is more reliable than any coal fired jigger

I feel I should also disclose that I have worked in both brown coal fired power stations in Vic and large scale solar farms and with out a doubt in my mind I know which one I would invest my hard earned into, and I can also tell you the margin isnt even remotely close no matter how you twist the figures

Paul

Underbonnet hydrogen generators are a crock of shit. If by installing one, your mind is focused on driving economically then there would be results worth having.

However if you're going to take mechanical energy and turn it into electrical energy with the alternator, then electrolyse a negligible amount of hydrogen to burn in the engine...the benefits won't be anything more than a warm fuzzy feelin.

There are some good developments coming though...

reneweconomy.com.au/massive-hydrogen-pro...yePp5T6-XoCgrNBAYYLs

Stopthesethings...

Yeah nah :

www.iea.org/newsroom/news/2019/october/o...illion-industry.html

Whattsupwiththat...

Reality is that renewables are cheaper, better, faster and even the energy industry is amazed. Like the boffins from the IEA keep underestimating renewables...

www.reuters.com/article/us-iea-renewable...d-2016-idUSKCN1C90KX

Just how much they underestimate is ludicrous.

steinbuch.wordpress.com/2017/06/12/photo...ional-energy-agency/

JoNova...

I think I'll take the opinion of the government authorities... ie Australian Energy Market Commission, over a self appointed expert.

On a national basis, representative residential electricity prices and bills are expected to decrease over the period from 2018-19 to 2021-22, primarily driven by wholesale costs reducing in most of the states and territories. Prices fall markedly over the whole reporting period as new capacity enters the system. Total capacity of committed projects includes 2,338 MW of solar, 2,566 MW of wind and 210 MW of OCGT.

Regulated network prices have been cut in response to falling distribution costs and environmental costs are being driven down by cheaper large-scale generation certificates for increasing levels of renewable generation.

www.aemc.gov.au/market-reviews-advice/re...ty-price-trends-2019

www.afr.com/companies/energy/power-price...ears-20191206-p53hnm

mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-09/power-...s-says-aemc/11778476

www.energymagazine.com.au/electricity-prices-set-to-fall/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7770025...sumers-278-year.html

And furthermore Jack, your cherry picking for low wind output is only gong to get harder as more distributed generation is built. The transition is only just getting started and we're breaking records all the time.

reneweconomy.com.au/renewables-supply-30...sWxQAVwb13_jYg3ikd-s