Electric vehicles and alternate fuel sources

There's a bit of difference between what the GWPF wants you to know and what it actually is... a conduit for doubt and misinformation.

They're science deniers.


The Global Warming Policy Foundation (GWPF) is a lobby group in the United Kingdom whose stated aims are to challenge "extremely damaging and harmful policies" envisaged by governments to mitigate anthropogenic global warming.[2] The GWPF as well as some of its prominent members have been characterized as promoting climate change denial.[3][4]

In 2014 The Independent described the foundation as "the UK's most prominent source of climate-change denial".[3]

The foundation was established in November 2009, a week after the start of the Climatic Research Unit email controversy,[5] with its headquarters in a room of the Institute of Materials, Minerals and Mining at 1 Carlton House Terrace, London, and subsequently moved to 55 Tufton Street, London SW1P 3QL. Its director is Benny Peiser,[6] an expert on the social and economic aspects of physical exercise, and it is chaired by Terence Mordaunt, co-owner of the cargo handling business Bristol Port Company[7]. It was previously chaired by the former Chancellor of the Exchequer Nigel Lawson.[8]

Charitable status

In June 2013 Bob Ward filed a formal complaint to the Charity Commission, alleging that the GWPF had "persistently disseminated inaccurate and misleading information about climate change as part of its campaign against climate policies in the UK and overseas", and that this was an abuse of their charitable status.

In 2014 the Charity Commission ruled that the GWPF had breached rules on impartiality in its climate change coverage, blurred fact and comment and demonstrated a clear bias.[19][20] In response, the GWPF agreed to establish a non-charitable organisation to do the lobbying, alongside the existing organisation, to be called the "Global Warming Policy Forum".[21] The GWP Forum is a wholly owned subsidiary of the GWP Foundation.


So yeah, they spruik misinformation and half truths. Hell they even use articles from Reneweconomy... when it suits their agenda... which is to maintain the status quo.

ie the people who own the money and the mines continue to do as they please, while you, and I, and our kids pay and pay and pay.

Mrsmackpaul wrote:
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Coal fired power stations are pretty much a done deal these days no matter how much we may like them

Still heaps of coal left in Australia.

Most of the stuff we import is made with coal power. And with the way India, China, and the rest of the manufacturing ‘world’ is building coal power stations I’m guessing coal power is going to be the manufacturing power base for some time to come.





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Michael Moore makes a lot of money pandering to millenials fears .

"There's a lot of coal left in Australia"

Good. It can stay here. In the ground where it belongs.



Coal kills miners... and it's the taxpayer, not the mining company, that picks up the health bill.

www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/an-ep...WImZMH4WZGb3ivaDhJtg

theconversation.com/black-lung-disease-o...tions-answered-91637

mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-15/queens.../8357772?pfmredir=sm

Tesla eat your heart out!

In 1898, Porsche joined the Vienna-based factory Jakob Lohner & Company, which produced coaches for Emperor Franz Joseph I of Austria as well as for the monarchs of the UK, Sweden, and Romania.[12] Jakob Lohner had begun construction of automobiles in 1896 under Ludwig Lohner in the trans-Danubian suburb of Floridsdorf. Their first design was the Egger-Lohner vehicle (also referred to as the C.2 Phaeton). First unveiled in Vienna, Austria, on 26 June 1898, Porsche had engraved the code "P1" (standing for Porsche, number one, signifying Ferdinand Porsche's first design) onto all the key components.[13]

The Egger-Lohner was a carriage-like car driven by two electric motors within the front wheel hubs, powered by batteries. This drive train construction was easily expanded to four-wheel drive, by mounting two more electric motors to the rear wheels, and a four-motor example was ordered by Englishman E. W. Hart in 1900. In December that year, the car was displayed at the Paris World Exhibition under the name Toujours-Contente. Even though this one-off vehicle[14] had been commissioned for the purposes of racing and record-breaking, its 1,800 kg (4,000 lb) of lead–acid batteries was a severe shortcoming. Though it "showed wonderful speed when it was allowed to sprint",[citation needed] the weight of the batteries rendered it slow to climb hills. It also suffered from limited range due to limited battery life.

Still employed by Lohner, Porsche introduced the "Lohner-Porsche Mixte Hybrid" in 1901: instead of a massive battery-pack, an internal combustion engine built by the German firm Daimler drove a generator which in turn drove the electric wheel hub motors. As a backup a small battery pack was fitted. This is the first petroleum-electric hybrid vehicle on record. Since sufficiently reliable gears and couplings were not available at the time, he chose to make it a series-hybrid, an arrangement now more common in diesel-electric or turbo-electric railway locomotives than in automobiles.

Though over 300 Lohner-Porsche chassis were sold up to 1906, most of them were two-wheel drive; either front- or rear-wheel driven trucks, buses and fire-engines. Some four wheel drive buses were produced, but no four wheel drive automobiles.

The vehicles achieved speeds of up to 56 kilometres per hour (35 mph), broke several Austrian speed records, and also won the Exelberg Rally in 1901, with Porsche himself driving a front-wheel drive hybrid. It was later upgraded with more powerful engines from Daimler and Panhard, which proved to be enough to gain more speed records. In 1905 Porsche was awarded the Pötting prize as Austria's most outstanding automotive engineer.

lantana jack wrote:

Mrsmackpaul wrote:
.....

Coal fired power stations are pretty much a done deal these days no matter how much we may like them

Still heaps of coal left in Australia.

Most of the stuff we import is made with coal power. And with the way India, China, and the rest of the manufacturing ‘world’ is building coal power stations I’m guessing coal power is going to be the manufacturing power base for some time to come.





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You sort of missed the point by about thousand miles, I am well aware of the fact there is plenty of coal, Australia has the biggest brown coal deposits in the world and at a guess our high quality black coal deposits would be with the biggest

The point is, the lead time from the moment the decide to build a coal fired power station till its up and running is well over 10 years
Solar is about about 12 months for a large scale solar farm
And the next biggest hurdle for coal is maintenance, you need large crews of workers working 24 hrs a day to keep it maintained, solar, hydro and wind you only need a part time crew that arent needed 24 hours a day
Then we get cost of building, solar is so very cheap compared to coal, dunno about wind and hydro development is just about all done

So solar is cheaper to build, cheaper to run, faster to build and cheaper to maintain

And the biggest problem with coal is there is no new power stations planned, not even on the drawing board and with lead time to supply of power been what it is and the fact our coal fired power stations are fast heading towards the end of their lives we have a major problem looming

Its not a shortage of coal that will see the demise of coal fired power stations, rather the complete lack of planning by Australian governments

Paul

Mrsmackpaul wrote:

lantana jack wrote:

Mrsmackpaul wrote: Coal fired power stations are pretty much a done deal these days no matter how much we may like them

Still heaps of coal left in Australia.

Most of the stuff we import is made with coal power. And with the way India, China, and the rest of the manufacturing ‘world’ is building coal power stations I’m guessing coal power is going to be the manufacturing power base for some time to come.

You sort of missed the point by about thousand miles, I am well aware of the fact there is plenty of coal, Australia has the biggest brown coal deposits in the world and at a guess our high quality black coal deposits would be with the biggest

The point is, the lead time from the moment the decide to build a coal fired power station till its up and running is well over 10 years
Solar is about about 12 months for a large scale solar farm
And the next biggest hurdle for coal is maintenance, you need large crews of workers working 24 hrs a day to keep it maintained, solar, hydro and wind you only need a part time crew that arent needed 24 hours a day
Then we get cost of building, solar is so very cheap compared to coal, dunno about wind and hydro development is just about all done

So solar is cheaper to build, cheaper to run, faster to build and cheaper to maintain

And the biggest problem with coal is there is no new power stations planned, not even on the drawing board and with lead time to supply of power been what it is and the fact our coal fired power stations are fast heading towards the end of their lives we have a major problem looming

Its not a shortage of coal that will see the demise of coal fired power stations, rather the complete lack of planning by Australian governments

Paul

Apologies for “missing the point”...

“...Malcolm Turnbull and his son, Alex were considered the dynamic duo among renewable energy rent seekers.
Turnbull the Younger managed to throw $millions at a nearly bankrupt wind power outfit (Infigen) just before daddy signed the Paris Climate Agreement, which lifted Infigen’s stocks and made the canny young investor a veritable fortune. Talk about lucky!.....”

Link Removed


Mrsmackpaul, a small detail that also gets missed by those pushing solar...

A Toyota Hilux engine is also “cheaper to build, cheaper to run, faster to build and cheaper to maintain” though it wont pull an eighty ton load from the get go. Plus, if the ‘engine’ don’t work at night then where we at ?

Any discussion of solar must also include the cost of the base load as a part of the cost of solar.






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JOHN.K. wrote: Michael Moore makes a lot of money pandering to millenials fears .

The little I’ve seen of his work makes me put off watching his latest effort. I do though find it amusing how he has turned around and bitten them pandered millennials. By the reactions it seems Michael Moore might have exposed a ‘reality’ they just don’t want to hear...





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invested energy wrote: "There's a lot of coal left in Australia"

Good. It can stay here. In the ground where it belongs.

Coal kills miners... and it's the taxpayer, not the mining company, that picks up the health bill.

Any industry has its dangers. That’s why Australia has some of the toughest work place health and safety regs.

The WPHS regs have evolved through the years as hazardous conditions are identified and then suitable safety gear mandated for that particular issue.

invested energy, I’m wondering, what are the ingredients that go into making solar panels ?


.....So, invested energy... What’s a science denier..?





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Lantana and Invested give it a break and continue on PM.

The thread is electric cars. They are dangerous :

Sixty-nine-year-old Henry H. Bliss was the first person ever killed by a car in the United States. And guess what? The car was an electric car.On September 13, 1899, Bliss had just alighted from a trolley and was trying to help a lady off when he was hit by a car. He survived the accident but was so badly injured that he died the next day. The taxi involved was owned by the Electric Vehicle Company—the same one whose driver was arrested for speeding.Bliss was hit around 74th Street and Central Park West in New York City. The area was so notorious for accidents that trolley drivers called it the “dangerous stretch.” However, none of the incidents were fatal before Bliss was killed. Interestingly, New York had more electric than gasoline cars at the time. Electric cars were popular because they were quieter, easier to drive, and did not release poisonous fumes.