Electric vehicles and alternate fuel sources

invested energy wrote: I'd be interested to know where everyone gets their informative banter from...
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As mentioned previously, diesel gen sets are a good stop gap to allow you to charge electric cars quickly, at better than equivalent diesel vehicle fuel mileage.
...
Things like a Tesla will allow you 80% charge in 20 minutes...

Hmmm...

Interesting claim: “...charge electric cars quickly, at better than equivalent diesel vehicle fuel mileage...”

invested energy, can you post the ‘research’ that backs up that claim.

I’m also wondering if there is a reduced long term battery life by doing the fast charge on a regular basis ?




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Yeah see, this is the thing...

The very first image Swishy posted has become a meme, a joke, given a life of its own by the sceptics who take the picture out of context and turn it into misinformation...

Here's the article :

thedriven.io/2018/12/14/diesel-charge-ev...ener-than-you-think/


So the likes of JoNova write some bullish!t piece in response, where she simultaneously opines that "it looks like a chain of efficiency losses" while she also "glances" at the figures, while removing the decimal points for credibility.

She has to glance at the figures because dwelling on them proves her opinion is wrong.

I can't tell you first hand what the battery degradation is like when fast charging. It'll have a lot to do with the way they're managed for temperature.

Rapid discharging creates heat too, so just like a conventional car, the more you flog it, the worse the mileage is and the shorter its life is. Who'd have thought?

The fun part I have with the wife's car is that driving like a little old lady really gets you further. With regenerative braking it actually slows down when you lift off, like a Jake brake that makes free diesel.

Correct me if I'm wrong but going down the hill into Adelaide takes 45min in a laden b double with the thing going "barrrrrpp" the whole way... there's a lot of energy going to waste. The wife's car recharges down that hill and according to the guess-o-meter on the dash it picks up another 4 or 5 Kay's range. I'll be unsurprised when we get 100 000km out of the brake pads.

Of course there's more... This thread starts out the same way with the same picture and ends up with the original poster backpedalling with that "oh I was joking" excuse that old mate Trump uses when he been called out as a fraud.

"You couldn't make this shit up" has become a joke in itself.

www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/13...ging-infrastructure/



factcheck.afp.com/no-not-petrol-generator-charging-electric-car

invested energy wrote:
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Here's the article :

thedriven.io/2018/12/14/diesel-charge-ev...ener-than-you-think/

.....

thedriven.io/2018/12/14/diesel-charge-ev...ener-than-you-think/

Let’s extract some details...

“...three-phase power outlets to charge EVs at remote locations such as roadhouses, phases are not always in balance due to diesel generator age and capacity, nor the points always accessible...”

So, it would appear it is not yet a viable ‘product’ for them bush servo’s to sell.


“...the tests, which took place in Perth, with 10 EV drivers total with Tesla Model S and X EVs...”

“...Running the charger for 9 hours and 15 minutes and consuming 108.6 litres of diesel to charge the 10 EVs...” (8hr 35m total charging time. Air temperature 20.1c to 28c)

Looks to me as though that is a slow charge rate. Important detail when the gist of the subject post is ‘filling up’ at the servo and not doing an overnight charge at home.



“...“I’m a tax paying citizen and I’m driving an EV, why haven’t we got infrastructure to service us?” he says....”

Hmmm... I didn’t realise all them bush roadhouses were government owned..:huh: ...or, is it just that some electric car owners expect the taxpayer to fund their hobby ?





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Cant make any judgement without knowing how many KWH/KJ it takes to charge the battery.......My other observation is ,that a generator runs on diesel on which a rebate can be claimed ,similar to diesel used for heating the motel......used to be something like $0.40 /l,probably more now...So ,again no road maintenance paid......Some here will know I have an electric vehicle powered by a diesel generator set ,and apart for far less road performance than if the engine drove the wheels directly ,I cant comment on the economy.

For whats its worth here are some thoughts

I listened to a pod cast some time ago about this very subject
There are two famous photos taken in New York Im pretty sure 10 years apart on the same street
In the first photo there is only one car and the rest are horses and in the second photo there is only one horse and the rest are cars

This pod cast goes onto explain how the new cars most of us are buying today will be our last new cars we ever buy
With self drive and electric cars fast becoming a reality we will no longer want to either drive or own a car
We will have a account like our mobile phone account for a phone we dont ever own and just like our mobile phone we will be happy to pay for a service

We will order a car to be at a certain place at a certain time and it will just turn up

I think the figure is less 5% utilization of our cars

For the cost of a new car that we wont need we can put a kid thru uni or pay for a wedding etc

As for the grid demands, as has already been touched on, the electric cars of tomorrow will charge when the is almost zero demand on the grid
Apparently there is more than enough grid capacity for this

The change will be slow at first but once going it will happen pretty quick for most of the population
Just like mobile phones or even electricity the highly populated areas will change first and it will be any decades for some area's
Self drive cars are real as are modern smart charging electric cars
Are they perfect ? Heck no but they are imporoving at a amazing pace
Think about it this way, as motor cars are getting more costly and Mum and Dad want one each, the kids want one for when they leave for uni etc, it wont be long before several hundred thousnd is tied up in cars we hardly use in real time and cost us a pretty penny to mantain, insure and garage

Just some thoughts
Invested Energy is on the right path, that much I dont doubt


Paul

Paul

This is not criticism of you, I understand you are just the messenger putting up some interesting stuff for the discussion.

The problem with all that and most of the electric car zealots is they are trying to tie technological progress to social engineering.

The technological developments of electric cars are progressing at a pace and will eventually be of huge benefit to society. Unfortunately we have BS about everybody not needing a car and just having some remote control Uber-like vehicle turn up when you need it. Society does not work like that.

If you live in an apartment in New York or Sydney and work in the city it might be OK. Taxi? Unfortunately most people in the world want their transport here and now at instant call. They want to be able to load it, nick down to the shop, drop the kids of at sport, keep it waiting or do whatever with it. It is not just some sales slogan but having a car really does mean freedom. The cost of owning a car is cheaper now than ever in history - we have to work about 1/3 of the hours to buy a 10 times better new car than our parents did to buy their new FX Holden

The Australian lifestyle does not cater for such restrictions with vast sprawling city residential suburbs, vast distances across the country, thousands of small towns and an extremely mobile population. Public transport as a solution to general population mobility is a complete crock unless you have buses/trains running within 15 minutes walk of every person in Australia and.... running every 15 minutes. Bus routes and trains travel in a particular direction, try getting across a city sideways to the route map.

Once again great for public servants and office workers in the CBD but unfortunately the greater percentage of workers are spread across the country in individual businesses, small industrial and commercial areas impossible to cover with a public transport network. And then again there are the trillions of potentially productive hours wasted walking to and from and waiting for the bus/train.

Electric cars are one thing and thumbs up when they get it sorted.

The only chance of having people generally give up their cars is to force them through tyrannical taxes and fees or pass criminal laws restricting their use to impossible conditions. ABC, Fairfax and the Greens might think some automated Jetsons society will fly but certainly not in our lifetimes.

Lang

Not knocking you or anyone else Lang, just discussing things
I feel in time it will pretty play out the way I describe
However this may not be in my life time in all areas
But I feel it will for a lot of inner city types, as to what proportion of people live and work in the inner city, I cant answer that
The world we live in has changed so much, who knows were it will go

Paul

I have no doubt that this predicted futuristic society will come in time but not for many years and not in my lifetime. Cars began to become popular at the start of the last century and grew like wildfire. However, there were still horse and cart deliveries being made well into the '50s, even more so in the cities.

As others have said, the problem will be greater for Australia than most other countries, soley due to the fact that we have such vast distances, not only between cities and towns, but out lying settlements and properties.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of solar, wind, hydro and thermo generation. I currently have both single and 3 phase solar on and would probably go batteries if I could afford to. But when it comes to vehicles, I would contemplate a hybrid but could never see a full electric being viable for me. Our closest city is Canberra, 200kms away and Sydney where the kids live, near 400. Our other sons are in Melbourne, that's 9 hours away. Even with fast charging, that would take two days to get there. Sorry, not viable.

Good discussing blokes...

Paul I think I have the podcast you're talking about, or it's by the same bloke..?

I am a fan of old cars, the T Ford in particular, so I already knew electric cars used to be popular at the dawn of motoring, before Ford made it a mass market in less than 15 years.

Even with what I already knew, this video opened my eyes... It's an hour long but I think the first 4 ½ minutes are just compulsory viewing.

Yep, don't use polluting brown coal here, just sell it to Japan where it will pollute just the same but it will not be "our fault."